Royals ***Official 2022 Royals Season Repository Thread*** - Page 212

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's just soooooo hard to fix a hit tool.

If you have an organization that can consistently do it, you're miles ahead of the game. Because most teams can't. If a guy has a bad hit tool he usually just...does. And there's not much changing it.

It's really the Rosetta stone of player development. The number of great power and/or great defense players who never made it because they were building on the shifting sands of an awful hit tool is really remarkable. If you can fix that, you can unlock so many talented players.

That's pretty accurate..

99.9999% of the time guys who don't walk and K a bunch will always be those guys, they were those guys when drafted and all through the minors also.
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Originally Posted by Mecca:
Can they just DFA that turd, dude has no upside at all..

I'll listen to Oliveras as an everday player but right now I think he'sa platoon guy, he murders lefties righties he's marginal.

What? I mean, who wouldn't want an almost 29 year old 5 year vet with a slash of:
.213/.290/.391...................
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
But... it's not a shitty return.

It might PROVE to be one, but judging at the time, it is somewhere from a good return (a top 10 and a top 20 prospect and a throw in) to a really good return (depending on where you have Waters ranked. I suspect BP and MLB will have him in the top 10 due to his tools).

Waters had to be added to the 40-man roster before Rule V draft, the Braves are in a 40-man roster crunch situation, and Waters has been passed by another prospect in their system (Michael Harris II).

Who had MHII making an impact ahead of Pache and Waters on their bingo cards a mere 18 months ago?

Baseball is weird.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Who had MHII making an impact ahead of Pache and Waters on their bingo cards a mere 18 months ago?

Baseball is weird.

I guess the Braves are pretty smart they identified that Pache can't hit.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's just soooooo hard to fix a hit tool.

If you have an organization that can consistently do it, you're miles ahead of the game. Because most teams can't. If a guy has a bad hit tool he usually just...does. And there's not much changing it.

It's really the Rosetta stone of player development. The number of great power and/or great defense players who never made it because they were building on the shifting sands of an awful hit tool is really remarkable. If you can fix that, you can unlock so many talented players.

His hit tool itself isn't the issue according to many evaluators, though. It's his approach.

He has good hands, controls that bat well, and can adjust/alter the bat path.

His issue is he's hyper aggressive, and more experienced pitchers who are able to execute crisply have been exploiting that. It's very similar to where M.J. Melendez was in 2019.

Waters' raw hit tool (physical) doesn't appear to actually be an issue. It's translating it to the game (mental and physical) that is the issue.

Hit tool is tough to fix. Pitch recognition is tough to fix.

Setting up a good with a better, more consistent approach is not... easy... but it is easier than either of the above.
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The Braves acquired the 35th pick in this Sunday’s MLB Draft from the Royals on Monday for center fielder Drew Waters, RHP Andrew Hoffmann and infielder C.J. Alexander.

The pick is a Competitive Balance Round A pick, which is eligible to be traded. As MLB.com’s Jim Callis reported in April, the 35th pick holds a slot value of $2.2 million. The Braves, who also own the 20th overall pick, bumped their Draft pool money up to $10.2 million, the 10th-highest total.

Waters, Atlanta’s No. 1 prospect according to MLB Pipeline, was the Braves' second-round pick in 2017 and has spent parts of the past three seasons at Triple-A Gwinnett. The Southern League MVP in 2019, the switch-hitting Waters slashed .246/.305/.393 with five home runs and 16 RBIs in 49 games with the Stripers this year.

Waters should immediately become one of the Royals’ top prospects; former No. 1 prospect Bobby Witt Jr.has already graduated from prospect status, while current No. 1 Vinnie Pasquantino is in the Majors.

Hoffmann -- a 12th-round pick in last year’s draft and Atlanta’s No. 23 prospect -- has made 15 starts this year for High-A Rome, going 7-2 with a 2.36 ERA across 80 innings. Alexander has spent the past two years with Double-A Mississippi, mashing 25 home runs across 152 games. While he’s primarily played third base throughout his career, he’s also made appearances at first base and in left field.

This is the second Competitive Balance pick to be traded this year. In April, the Tigers traded their Competitive Balance Round B pick (No. 72 overall) to the Rays as part of the Austin Meadows deal.

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Originally Posted by Mecca:
I guess the Braves are pretty smart they identified that Pache can't hit.

That was always a worry with him.

Peter Bourjos wasn't a bad comp for him as he was coming up in the low minors.
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Originally Posted by KChiefs1:
The Braves acquired the 35th pick in this Sunday’s MLB Draft from the Royals on Monday for center fielder Drew Waters, RHP Andrew Hoffmann and infielder C.J. Alexander.

The pick is a Competitive Balance Round A pick, which is eligible to be traded. As MLB.com’s Jim Callis reported in April, the 35th pick holds a slot value of $2.2 million. The Braves, who also own the 20th overall pick, bumped their Draft pool money up to $10.2 million, the 10th-highest total.

Waters, Atlanta’s No. 1 prospect according to MLB Pipeline, was the Braves' second-round pick in 2017 and has spent parts of the past three seasons at Triple-A Gwinnett. The Southern League MVP in 2019, the switch-hitting Waters slashed .246/.305/.393 with five home runs and 16 RBIs in 49 games with the Stripers this year.

Waters should immediately become one of the Royals’ top prospects; former No. 1 prospect Bobby Witt Jr.has already graduated from prospect status, while current No. 1 Vinnie Pasquantino is in the Majors.

Hoffmann -- a 12th-round pick in last year’s draft and Atlanta’s No. 23 prospect -- has made 15 starts this year for High-A Rome, going 7-2 with a 2.36 ERA across 80 innings. Alexander has spent the past two years with Double-A Mississippi, mashing 25 home runs across 152 games. While he’s primarily played third base throughout his career, he’s also made appearances at first base and in left field.

This is the second Competitive Balance pick to be traded this year. In April, the Tigers traded their Competitive Balance Round B pick (No. 72 overall) to the Rays as part of the Austin Meadows deal.

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Waters' prospect status has dropped like a rock the past year. He's no longer their top prospect. JJ Cooper tweeted that he was their #15 prospect on their latest rankings.
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
His hit tool itself isn't the issue according to many evaluators, though. It's his approach.

He has good hands, controls that bat well, and can adjust/alter the bat path.

His issue is he's hyper aggressive, and more experienced pitchers who are able to execute crisply have been exploiting that. It's very similar to where M.J. Melendez was in 2019.

Waters' raw hit tool (physical) doesn't appear to actually be an issue. It's translating it to the game (mental and physical) that is the issue.

Hit tool is tough to fix. Pitch recognition is tough to fix.

Setting up a good with a better, more consistent approach is not... easy... but it is easier than either of the above.

Jose Reyes is probably your poster child there.

Reyes looked for all the world like a super fast SS w/ plus defense who'd probably never be a star because he just got himself out too often.

Then all of the sudden he just didn't do that anymore, his K rate improved a little but mostly his BB rate damn near tripled. Suddenly he's on base more, stealing more bags, driving more balls. That little tick forward after a couple partial MLB seasons and then a full one catapulted him into genuine superstar status.

But for every one of him, there's a 100 Harison !@#@$ing Baders, who's answer to not making contact on sliders out of the zone is to just swing HARDER at them.

Pitch recognition is a bear. But yeah, it's easier to fix than bat control.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Jose Reyes is probably your poster child there.

Reyes looked for all the world like a super fast SS w/ plus defense who'd probably never be a star because he just got himself out too often.

Then all of the sudden he just didn't do that anymore, his K rate improved a little but mostly his BB rate damn near tripled. Suddenly he's on base more, stealing more bags, driving more balls. That little tick forward after a couple partial MLB seasons and then a full one catapulted him into genuine superstar status.

But for every one of him, there's a 100 Harison !@#@$ing Baders, who's answer to not making contact on sliders out of the zone is to just swing HARDER at them.

Pitch recognition is a bear. But yeah, it's easier to fix than bat control.

I don't think it's even a pitch recognition issue. It's that he goes up without a plan (at all). He doesn't prep before games. He has been relying on natural talent alone, and until last year, that had been really successful.

I've got a buddy who is in good with Trey Harris (who has spent a lot of time with Waters in the minors and is the exact opposite), who had shared some of that in the past.

His natural hands/bat-to-ball had most evaluators putting 50+ hit tools on Waters leading into the 2021 season.
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How many catchers bat lead off? Another interesting lineup from Mad Mike

Daniel Lynch gets the start in Game 2 vs. the Tigers.#TogetherRoyal pic.twitter.com/cKOX9gMpvP
— Kansas City Royals (@Royals) July 11, 2022

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Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
How many catchers bat lead off? Another interesting lineup from Mad Mike

Daniel Lynch gets the start in Game 2 vs. the Tigers.#TogetherRoyal pic.twitter.com/cKOX9gMpvP
— Kansas City Royals (@Royals) July 11, 2022

Jason Kendall used to bat leadoff at C, not for the Royals but when he was with the A's.
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And Elias Sports said tonight is a first for Royals with the Catcher leading off. Never done in Royals history.

Speaking of Melendez, does anyone else think he will get moved out of the catcher position ala Biggio, Sweeney, and others etc.
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Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
And Elias Sports said tonight is a first for Royals with the Catcher leading off. Never done in Royals history.

Speaking of Melendez, does anyone else think he will get moved out of the catcher position ala Biggio, Sweeney, and others etc.

Yes because we are stupid idiots
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Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
And Elias Sports said tonight is a first for Royals with the Catcher leading off. Never done in Royals history.

Speaking of Melendez, does anyone else think he will get moved out of the catcher position ala Biggio, Sweeney, and others etc.

No, but I think he will continue to get starts in other positions so both he and Perez can be in the lineup at starter levels.

He fits RF pretty well on those off days.
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