Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Styles and matchups matter.
Yes, the Ravens have, over the course of the season, had success getting to the QB with just 4 pass rushers. In the aggregate.
That does not mean they will have success against the Chiefs' offensive line, which is one of the better pass blocking units in the NFL, and arguably the best - complete - pass blocking unit the Ravens have played (you could put the Lions ahead of them, probably, at full strength).
I hope the Ravens send their core 4 against the Chiefs and try to get home with 4 consistently. The Chiefs are better against that than most teams the Ravens have played or in the NFL period.
Sure. None of us know what will happen. The point is just that the Ravens have shown better than any other team in the league that they can get home with four. Whether that actually happens against the team best at combating that is unknown. My original post wasn't a prediction as to what will or won't happen; I was just fact checking a poster who spams the same misinformation.
A larger point that here is that I think this Ravens team was constructed with the knowledge that the Ravens would likely need to go through the Chiefs at some point if they were to get to the Super Bowl. They fired Wink Martindale, whose calling card was to blitz and who failed against the Chiefs for that reason in the games people here love to cite. They built a d-line that gets pressure with four. And they drafted Kyle Hamilton to have a shot at containing Kelce.
You say that matchups matters, and I agree; the problem for the Chiefs is that the Ravens have been purpose built in certain ways to match up with the Chiefs. [Reply]
People can talk about Kyle Hamilton and he is a good player but Kittle torched the Ravens and several TE's have put up good numbers. It's another area where that defense have issues if you look at the stats. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
It will be an interesting matchup, for sure. TEs have put up pretty good numbers against the Ravens defense despite the presence of Queen and Smith and Hamilton. What gives on that?
Hamilton might match up really well against Kelce. We'll find out tomorrow. KC is not above using Kelce as a decoy to create opportunities and big plays for other plays, like TE2 Noah Gray, or Rashee Rice, or for deep shots, or even for a RB on a screen.
I think it's like I mentioned that Hamilton isn't actually used on tight ends in practice nearly as much as people talk about him being a tight end eraser in theory. He has become such a versatile piece that they don't want to waste him shadowing Evan Engram or Pat Friermuth. They use Hamilton at literally every position on the defense (including a snap at nose tackle once). But Travis Kelce is in an entirely different universe than those other TEs and might merit Hamilton's sole focus. The decoy idea is very interesting; this matchup could be epic if Reid and Macdonald are both in their bag. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive:
Sure. None of us know what will happen. The point is just that the Ravens have shown better than any other team in the league that they can get home with four. Whether that actually happens against the team best at combating that is unknown. My original post wasn't a prediction as to what will or won't happen; I was just fact checking a poster who spams the same misinformation.
A larger point that here is that I think this Ravens team was constructed with the knowledge that the Ravens would likely need to go through the Chiefs at some point if they were to get to the Super Bowl. They fired Wink Martindale, whose calling card was to blitz and who failed against the Chiefs for that reason in the games people here love to cite. They built a d-line that gets pressure with four. And they drafted Kyle Hamilton to have a shot at containing Kelce.
You say that matchups matters, and I agree; the problem for the Chiefs is that the Ravens have been purpose built in certain ways to match up with the Chiefs.
I'm sure what you're saying is correct. However, I'm just as sure that everyone in the AFC has been building their team to beat The Chiefs for years now.
Maybe you guys get it done. Maybe not. We'll see. [Reply]
Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger:
People can talk about Kyle Hamilton and he is a good player but Kittle torched the Ravens and several TE's have put up good numbers. It's another area where that defense have issues if you look at the stats.
You can't cover everyone on San Francisco. You have to account for CMC, Aiyuk, Deebo, and Kittle. Something has to give, and for a few plays, it was Kittle. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I'm sure what you're saying is correct. However, I'm just as sure that everyone in the AFC has been building their team to beat The Chiefs for years now.
Maybe you guys get it done. Maybe not. We'll see.
Absolutely. I'm sure the other AFC West teams go into every draft thinking about which players will help them beat the Chiefs. It's a fact of life for them that they know they'll need to go through KC. I know that has happened in the AFC North with the other teams drafting to contain Lamar, which is why they tend to fare far better against the Ravens than the field. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive:
Sure. None of us know what will happen. The point is just that the Ravens have shown better than any other team in the league that they can get home with four. Whether that actually happens against the team best at combating that is unknown. My original post wasn't a prediction as to what will or won't happen; I was just fact checking a poster who spams the same misinformation.
A larger point that here is that I think this Ravens team was constructed with the knowledge that the Ravens would likely need to go through the Chiefs at some point if they were to get to the Super Bowl. They fired Wink Martindale, whose calling card was to blitz and who failed against the Chiefs for that reason in the games people here love to cite. They built a d-line that gets pressure with four. And they drafted Kyle Hamilton to have a shot at containing Kelce.
You say that matchups matters, and I agree; the problem for the Chiefs is that the Ravens have been purpose built in certain ways to match up with the Chiefs.
All well and good. Here's another key point that you probably don't want to consider if you are not a Chiefs fan:
The Ravens front is NOT as good at pressuring the QB with 4 as the Eagles front we saw last season. By a decent measure.
And the Chiefs OL, for all that the T have been maligned for their penalties, is BETTER at pass blocking than it was last year, because Taylor and Smith are better pass blockers as a duo than Orlando Brown and Andrew fucking Wylie. In 2022, the Chiefs had to give help consistently to Wylie and Brown on pass sets. They often were running chips on both ends using a TE and a RB. This year, they have been more traditional and chipping a single side as needed, because both T are able to hold up on an island against outside pass rushes.
Yes, the penalties have been an issue. Each has been pretty clean in that regard the past few weeks.
I think most AFC teams are building their squads with an eye on how to beat the Chiefs, and agree with you that the changes the Ravens have made give them a better matchup than they previously had. [Reply]
Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger:
I don't know if anyone has seen the numbers but there is a CLEAR WEAKNESS in the Ravens defense that no-one is really talking about. And what is it you may ask?
QB RUNS!!
Cj Stroud= 4 carries, 20 yards, 5 yards per carry
DTR= 4 carries, 24 yards, 6 yards per carry
Pickett= 1 carry, 16 yards
Willis= 3 carries, 17 yards, 5.7 per carry
Dobbs= 6 carries, 26 yards, 4.3 yards per carry and a TD
Watson= 8 carries, 37 yards, 4.6 yards per carry
Browning= 4 carries, 40 yards, 10 yards per carry ( plus Burrow had one carry for 7 yards before getting hurt so it was 5 carries for 47 yards total in that game between the qb's)
Herbert= 4 carries, 47 yards, 11.8 yards per carry
Lawrence= 4 carries, 41 yards, 10.2 yards per carry
Darnald= 1 carry, 9 yards
Tua= 2 carries, 14 yards, 7 yards per carry
Obviously one scramble here and there can tilt the stats but look at those Browning, Herbert and Lawrence stats!!..and those are guys that are pocket passers mainly :-) . I also remember watching that Browns game and Watson's runs late in the game to convert 3rd downs demoralised that defense.
Other than Dobbs and Watson Pat will be the BEST runner they have faced this year...FACT. Meanwhile the Chiefs have faced FIELDS, HURTS AND ALLEN (TWICE!!). We also saw Browning, Herbert and Lawrence like the Ravens. So in reality we've had plenty of reps against tough running QB's, and also the ones who gave the Ravens problems.
I honestly think Pat's runs could do a lot of damage tomorrow. Especially as Chris Simms already pointed out the Ravens DL haven't been great just rushing four. So they may need to send more guys which could open up rushing lanes.
And lastly all three of their loses were at home. Is it a coincidence that the four times teams put pressure on them in that building they lost three and was taken to OT in the other? We'll see.
Well we last the 1st Pitt game in the road The 2nd Pitt fans wax against backups [Reply]
Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive:
Absolutely. I'm sure the other AFC West teams go into every draft thinking about which players will help them beat the Chiefs. It's a fact of life for them that they know they'll need to go through KC. I know that has happened in the AFC North with the other teams drafting to contain Lamar, which is why they tend to fare far better against the Ravens than the field.
Not just the AFC West, though, you see? It's different. EVERYONE in the AFC knows that if you want to go to the Super Bowl, you're going to have to beat The Chiefs. So every serious contender is gunning for KC and has been for six years now. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
All well and good. Here's another key point that you probably don't want to consider if you are not a Chiefs fan:
The Ravens front is NOT as good at pressuring the QB with 4 than the Eagles front we saw last season. By a decent measure.
And the Chiefs OL, for all that the T have been maligned for their penalties, is BETTER at pass blocking than it was last year, because Taylor and Smith are better pass blockers as a duo than Orlando Brown and Andrew ****ing Wylie. In 2022, the Chiefs had to give help consistently to Wylie and Brown on pass sets. They often were running chips on both ends using a TE and a RB. This year, they have been more traditional and chipping a single side as needed, because both T are been able to hold up on an island against outside pass rushes.
Yes, the penalties have been an issue. Each has been pretty clean in that regard the past few weeks.
I think most AFC teams are building their squads with an eye on how to beat the Chiefs, and agree with you that the changes the Ravens have made give them a better matchup than they previously had.
No disagreement with any of that. To be clear, the Ravens' strength is not their front. To put things in perspective, their front is the weakest part of the defense. They haven't even tried to get a dominant edge beyond taking Oweh in the 1st in that trade between the Chiefs and Ravens for Orlando Brown Jr. Instead, they built the d-line from the inside out. But even there, they didn't spend high-end draft picks on their DTs like the Eagles did; Madubuike and Jones are both 3rd rounders, and Michael Pierce was a cheap signing/UDFA.
The strengths of the Ravens' defense are the secondary and ILBs. And both of those units are significantly better than what the Eagles had. The Ravens' YPA through the air are the lowest in the NFL this year, and through much of the season it was the lowest in several decades. The Smith/Queen ILB duo were both all pros this year.
So while the Ravens' front might not be as good as the Eagles' front, the Ravens' everything else is way better than the Eagles' everything else. And even still, the Ravens' led the league in sacks with four rushers, so the front is perfectly fine.
I think the Eagles were a wildly overrated team last year and going into this, and I don't like the comps people like making here between them and the Ravens. The Eagles won a lot of close games, but they played a Charmin soft schedule. Their collapse this year speaks volumes about who they are. [Reply]
He's not playing and going through something personal...My god you are a scumbag to take glee in their responses. You can hate his play, and be glad hes out, but he is still a Chief that helped us win a Superbowl. Weird... [Reply]
Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive:
Sure. None of us know what will happen. The point is just that the Ravens have shown better than any other team in the league that they can get home with four. Whether that actually happens against the team best at combating that is unknown. My original post wasn't a prediction as to what will or won't happen; I was just fact checking a poster who spams the same misinformation.
A larger point that here is that I think this Ravens team was constructed with the knowledge that the Ravens would likely need to go through the Chiefs at some point if they were to get to the Super Bowl. They fired Wink Martindale, whose calling card was to blitz and who failed against the Chiefs for that reason in the games people here love to cite. They built a d-line that gets pressure with four. And they drafted Kyle Hamilton to have a shot at containing Kelce.
You say that matchups matters, and I agree; the problem for the Chiefs is that the Ravens have been purpose built in certain ways to match up with the Chiefs.
Wink consistently fielded elite defenses. Couldn’t beat the Chiefs. McDonald fields an elite defense and it’s automatically assumed that he will? Because a second year coordinator is gonna throw looks at Mahomes he’s never seen before?
It’s amazing how much credit ravens get for things they haven’t accomplished yet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive:
I wouldn't be concerned about Kelce being confused by the Ravens' scheme either. He's one of the smartest guys to ever play tight end.
I would be more worried about the existence of Kyle Hamilton. He was drafted in large part to be a guy who erases tight ends. Hamilton's role has expanded beyond that since then and he is usually asked to do more than just cover a tight end. But if in this game he is pretty much glued to Kelce's hip, Kelce doesn't have a mismatch like he usually does. Hamilton is as big, physical, and smart as any defensive back in the NFL.
Originally Posted by Chief_N_Bama:
Wink consistently fielded elite defenses. Couldn’t beat the Chiefs. McDonald fields an elite defense and it’s automatically assumed that he will? Because a second year coordinator is gonna throw looks at Mahomes he’s never seen before?
It’s amazing how much credit ravens get for things they haven’t accomplished yet.
Wink was and is a good defensive coordinator. His scheme worked against most teams in the league. But it was heavily reliant on the blitz. And it was/is painfully clear that doesn't work against Mahomes.
There was actually a game against KC where Wink didn't blitz at all, that MNF game in Baltimore. He totally changed his scheme to accommodate for Mahomes being a blitz breaker. It didn't work at all and Mahomes ate it up in a different way.
I think the Ravens moved on from Wink in large part because while he could field good defenses, he was never going to beat Mahomes, and as is clear, Mahomes is going to be there somewhere along the line in the playoffs. Macdonald is much better suited for that as he is one of the most innovative minds on the defensive side and doesn't rely on the blitz or recycled concepts. We'll see whether that means anything tomorrow. [Reply]
