He had every opportunity to upgrade both lines during the offseason and trade deadline and didn’t add anything that makes a real difference. Could have had Suh and others but nope… [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
My problem with it is just focusing so many resources on it...it could end up backfiring a bit as other areas decay.
We need to hit the DL hard...but now the T spots are really becoming an issue. The areas we now need to hit aren't really areas you find where we're gonna be drafting, if you want immediate type guys there.
But they really only invested (high) a 1st round pick. Sneed was a 4th. Williams and Watson are day 3 picks. That's honestly perfect, especially after letting a guy like Ward walk.
Now they can focus on DL and OT for the next offseason, or even 2, if they have to. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Again....look at the investments there.
Bosa was what...the 2nd overall pick?
Armstead is a first rounder
They paid Ward
Jimmy Ward was a first rounder
They've got another DL who they took in the first round. They're paying Fred Warner alot of money.
The Chiefs are paying their QB what they're paying him. The 9ers don't have that to deal with.
This is probably the crunch. Bills, Bengals, Chargers, Eagles and Dolphins have cheap QBs. Bengals also had the weird "bonus" of Burrow's injury which ultimately led to them getting an oddly high draft pick and elite talent, if I'm remembering it right. They just have a lot more room to go get a Von Miller or even just Ingram and Chubb. The interesting point will be when they start having to make compromises to accommodate their QBs. If any of them manage this and pick up more SBs than we do then Veach will probably have to answer to that. But right now they need to get one. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Cooks is in there as well.
I was thinking just corners, but eh, as long as they're not misses I'm fine with it.
I don't see anything wrong with building your DB group first then the DL. It's not ideal, but I think Veach felt that DB was the better option to attack given what was available.
The order isn't as important as getting it right. They went DB first, and I think they hit on most of those guys. Now they need to do it with the DL (and Karlaftis hopefully develops like we think he can). [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I was thinking just corners, but eh, as long as they're not misses I'm fine with it.
I don't see anything wrong with building your DB group first then the DL. It's not ideal, but I think Veach felt that DB was the better option to attack given what was available.
The order isn't as important as getting it right. They went DB first, and I think they hit on most of those guys. Now they need to do it with the DL (and Karlaftis hopefully develops like we think he can).
The rules being what they are now, I just don't think the return on building the secondary is worth the ultimate reward as it is going from the front back. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
You are correct that Dallas has been in a better draft spot, no doubt about that. But...
I have no idea if Veach picks a guy like Parsons. He traded for and paid massive money to Frank Clark. A defensive guru head coach was looking to dump the guy and the Chiefs were foolish enough to fall for that trade with Pete Carroll. They were also dumb enough to pay big money to Anthony Hitchens when the Cowboys knew he wasn't worth that type of cash.
Chiefs also blew a first round pick on CEH. Mahomes is partially to blame. He wanted Clyde. But Veach & Reid are mostly to blame. Reid overrules Mahomes all the time in playcalling (4th downs/field goals, etc). Yet they chose CEH and it was a pretty big mistake.
First of all, drafting guys is never a sure thing. It's always some kind of roll of the dice. Some bets are better than others of course, but there's always risks. So, I don't think of drafting CEH as a 'big mistake.' They rolled the dice and they lost. It happens all the time, around the league, every draft, regardless of which team we're talking about, or which GM pulled the trigger. Sometimes you lose.
and that's exactly what the NFL draft is: extremely high stakes gambling. That's really all it is. And the best draft prognosticators are right about 58-65% of the time. That's better than flipping a coin, but that's it.
And that's one pick. Please tell me we aren't going to pigeon-hole Veach over one pick in one draft. Or, over one trade.
How about you look at every pick and every trade over Veach's tenure, then tell us how many were truly bad 'mistakes,' then maybe we can appropriately assess whether Veach sucks ass or not.
That would at least be a more objective way to look at Veach's job performance. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
And let's not pretend that the Chiefs roster isn't already full of young talent.
I mean, for all the crying about Veach and the DL, nobody on that side of the argument wants to acknowledge that he went up on the draft and got a legitimate potential blue chipper with McDuffie.
That guy looked like a future All-Pro going up against Chase and Higgins.
That's not true. MANY, including myself, have giving him credit for the OUTSTANDING job he did in moving up for McDuffie as well as all the other young drafted talent in the Secondary and at LB. It does not change the fact that he has not done a good job with the DL.
It's like you go waaaaay out of your way to defend the guy, and start your stupid name calling, when nobody is questioning the fact that he is a very good GM. Just that he has not done a good job with the DL. BOTH can be true. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Agree with the first couple paragraphs for the most part. Though, the shitty defense Mahomes inherited wasn't Veach's fault. In large part, that was Sutton's/Dorsey's cross to bear. Spags just tried to make chicken salad out of chickenshit when he got to KC. To his credit, it took him just 12 weeks to turn them into something competitive.
However;
Where has DAL been picking all these years? Don't recall them picking in the 30s for some time now. Lot easier to snag great players when you're perennially picking in the teens.
And here's the thing, and the one time I'll give Sutton/Dorsey a little credit: even without Mahomes, except for one season, Andy was producing double-digit win playoff teams year after year, so KC was always picking from the bottom of the draft barrel, even before Mahomes showed up.
So, it was always harder for them to get great players through the draft than DAL has had it in about two decades, since they were always basically a .500 team, always picking at least in the teens or better.
Put another way, if Veach could have a draft where he was picking in the top 15, do you really think he wouldn't pick some great players? you think he doesn't pick Parsons?
It's just not apples to apples, just sayin'.
Easy to draft well when you do it in the Top 15 every year. Much harder when you have to do it at pick #26 or later year after year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TEX:
That's not true. MANY, including myself, have giving him credit for the OUTSTANDING job he did in moving up for McDuffie as well as all the other young drafted talent in the Secondary and at LB. It does not change the fact that he has not done a good job with the DL.
You realize that retooling bascially the majority of the roster, which they started last offseason, is going to take more than one offseason, correct?
They invested a 1st round pick. They signed Dunlap. They recently added Brandon Williams. Veach knows where the weakness is. It just didn't work out to where he was able to attack it like he did the DBs (or OL the year before).
The DL will be addressed, and the moves Veach HAS made are good enough for this team to beat anybody this year, regardless of your overreaction to two losses against great teams by a combined 6 points.
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
First of all, drafting guys is never a sure thing. It's always some kind of roll of the dice. Some bets are better than others of course, but there's always risks. So, I don't think of drafting CEH as a 'big mistake.' They rolled the dice and they lost. It happens all the time, around the league, every draft, regardless of which team we're talking about, or which Gm pulled the trigger. Sometimes you lose.
and that's exactly what the NFL draft is: extremely high stakes gambling. That's really all it is. And the best draft prognosticators are right about 58-65% of the time. That's better than flipping a coin, but that's it.
And that's one pick. Please tell me we aren't going to pigeon-hole Veach over one pick in one draft. Or, over one trade.
How about you look at every pick and every trade over Veach's tenure, then tell us how many were truly bad 'mistakes,' then maybe we can appropriately assess whether Veach sucks ass or not.
That would at least be a more objective way to look at Veach's job performance.
I just hope they learn from the mistakes with CEH & Frank Clark or even Hitchens. If another team is looking to dump a guy, you gotta think carefully about giving the big money contract to him. First Round draft picks? I am not sure KC should ever use the First Round spot on a skill position player moving forward with Mahomes at QB.
Mahomes can get by with JAG skill position guys. Pacheco is doing very well as a 7th rounder, that's for sure. McKinnon is doing a damn good job as well. Patrick needs a good OL and a good defense way more than he needed CEH to reach his ceiling. But hell, Mahomes pushed for the Clyde pick and I hope he learned from that as well. I think he took for granted how solid Fisher & Schwartz were at the OT spots. That got wiped out pretty soon after the Clyde draft, sadly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
You are correct that Dallas has been in a better draft spot, no doubt about that. But...
I have no idea if Veach picks a guy like Parsons. He traded for and paid massive money to Frank Clark. A defensive guru head coach was looking to dump the guy and the Chiefs were foolish enough to fall for that trade with Pete Carroll. They were also dumb enough to pay big money to Anthony Hitchens when the Cowboys knew he wasn't worth that type of cash.
Chiefs also blew a first round pick on CEH. Mahomes is partially to blame. He wanted Clyde. But Veach & Reid are mostly to blame. Reid overrules Mahomes all the time in playcalling (4th downs/field goals, etc). Yet they chose CEH and it was a pretty big mistake.
Sorry, but I don’t agree. We needed LBs so I see zero reason why he wouldn’t have taken Parsons if he had the chance. And if he didn’t it would have been because he got a LT to replace Fisher. The Clark trade at the time was not bad. He was integral in this team winning a SB. No one would have envisioned him falling this far this fast. He also brought in Mathieu, was that a mistake?
Nothing wrong with the CEH pick. At the time KC had just won a SB and had no glaring weaknesses. Adding CEH was viewed as another weapon for this team. To think at that time he would not be the player we hoped is also not accurate.
Every team makes mistakes and overpays the wrong people. At least with Veach, he structures contracts in a way that it is easier to get out of. He’s not perfect but no GM is. [Reply]
OP, if the loss is on Veach, the best GM in the league, then the loss is also on Reid the best coach in the league because Reid is the shot caller for the Chiefs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
I just hope they learn from the mistakes with CEH & Frank Clark or even Hitchens. If another team is looking to dump a guy, you gotta think carefully about giving the big money contract to him. First Round draft picks? I am not sure KC should ever use the First Round spot on a skill position player moving forward with Mahomes at QB.
Mahomes can get by with JAG skill position guys. Pacheco is doing very well as a 7th rounder, that's for sure. McKinnon is doing a damn good job as well. Patrick needs a good OL and a good defense way more than he needed CEH to reach his ceiling. But hell, Mahomes pushed for the Clyde pick and I hope he learned from that as well. I think he took for granted how solid Fisher & Schwartz were at the OT spots. That got wiped out pretty soon after the Clyde draft, sadly.
It got wiped out because Schwartz got injured early and did not play the rest of the season and retired at the end. No way to predict that. Fisher suffered a freak Achilles injury near the end of the AFCCG after the game was already decided. What lesson could Mahomes have honestly learned? Why would Pat not push for another weapon?
We have no true #1 WR and after Kelce we have to true #1 TE. Your plan is to go full GB and never use a 1st on a skill position player and instead tell Mahomes to deal with it? Not sure that is a wise strategy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by tredadda:
Sorry, but I don’t agree. We needed LBs so I see zero reason why he wouldn’t have taken Parsons if he had the chance. And if he didn’t it would have been because he got a LT to replace Fisher. The Clark trade at the time was not bad. He was integral in this team winning a SB. No one would have envisioned him falling this far this fast. He also brought in Mathieu, was that a mistake?
Nothing wrong with the CEH pick. At the time KC had just won a SB and had no glaring weaknesses. Adding CEH was viewed as another weapon for this team. To think at that time he would not be the player we hoped is also not accurate.
Every team makes mistakes and overpays the wrong people. At least with Veach, he structures contracts in a way that it is easier to get out of. He’s not perfect but no GM is.
Honey Badger was a very good move. Just wish he could have played at a high enough level to stick around longer.
Frank Clark was not integral to the team winning the Super Bowl IMHO. The entire 2019 season people were bitching about the fact he was overpaid and underperforming. I would give Honey Badger, Mike Pennel, & Terrell Suggs a lot more credit for helping the defense improve enough to win the ring. The run defense was really struggling until Pennel & Suggs joined the team in the middle of the season. [Reply]