Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
That’s selective editing of the clip. If you watch everything leading up to it he isn’t paying any attention to Jokic. He is paying 90% of his attention to okogie and he even has his left arm hooked around the fan okogie ran into to help him up. His reaction seemed way more surprised than it seemed intentional. It looked like he was holding the ball focused on helping the fan and okogie get up, and was surprised when Jokic tugged at the ball.
Would you agree that in the lebron example I posted it would have been weird for a pelicans player to sprint into the crowd, take the ball from a fan, and push a 5-4?
There is nothing selectively edited about the owner not releasing the ball and not knocking it away so Jokic can't initiate a fast break. That happened and it doesn't take much to reason that he did it quite deliberately given his basketball background.
And I watched that LeBron play as well and strongly believe Jokic would have attempted to do the same thing in that situation too if it was a playoff game. Jokic is a ruthless and cutthroat high IQ player in a way that most guys in the league simply are not. He takes advantage of any team's disadvantage and it would have been on the refs to stop play in that situation (which they obviously likely would have done because it was LeBron James, the greatest the sport has ever seen who was potentially injured, and not some random player). Now the refs may have well stopped play yesterday too if the incident never happened, but Jokic was going to force them into making that call for themselves. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
I am pretty sure since it wasn't a made basket the ref has to have the ball first then give it back. I will pay attention more tonight when it happens.
Jokic was no doubt planning to grab the ball and throw it to the ref for a quick exit while Okogie was down and out of the play. It would then have been on the ref to either stop play (if they were worried about Okogie being hurt) or to allow play to continue. [Reply]
Great win for the Suns last night in an amazing series so far! That should be and is the only story. Suspending or fining anyone over last nights incident would not be right. I have alot of respect for Jokic and don’t want to see anything like that. Excited for game 5! Go Suns!
Tweeted like somebody who knows he's most at risk of facing discipline over this incident from the league. I'm sure he doesn't want to give up his courtside seat for the rest of the playoffs.
I’d say there is way less tolerance for a player entering the crowd. Jokic shouldn’t have gone there let alone initiate contact by trying to grab the ball away. Ishbia has every reason to have the ball but in the moment didn’t react well to Jokic… including clutching the ball. But he is not the one to initiate the confrontation. Jokic also knows the rules. He knows there is zero tolerance about entering the crowd and that it was a dead ball. Glad he wasn’t ejected or suspended but he’s pretty lucky he wasn’t. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
There is nothing selectively edited about the owner not releasing the ball and not knocking it away so Jokic can't initiate a fast break. That happened and it doesn't take much to reason that he did it quite deliberately given his basketball background.
And I watched that LeBron play as well and strongly believe Jokic would have attempted to do the same thing in that situation too if it was a playoff game. Jokic is a ruthless and cutthroat high IQ player in a way that most guys in the league simply are not. He takes advantage of any team's disadvantage and it would have been on the refs to stop play in that situation (which they obviously likely would have done because it was LeBron James, the greatest the sport has ever seen who was potentially injured, and not some random player). Now the refs may have well stopped play yesterday too if the incident never happened, but Jokic was going to force them into making that call for themselves.
It is because it looks as if he’s looking at Jokic the entire way and like a petulant kid was stomping the ground refusing to give the ball up. This happened in practically a split second. He had the ball for what, 3 seconds? Ishbia wasn’t even looking at Jokic until he felt the ball getting tugged. In the moment it’s not surprising that he would react wondering “wait what is this guy doing?” The narrative that he was clutching the ball for some advantage is a bit extra. He looked like he was focused on helping the fan and okogie get up. Every clip showing the lead up shows that he wasn’t even watching Jokic. The way he reacted I’m not sure he even realized he had the ball in his hand. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
It is because it looks as if he’s looking at Jokic the entire way and like a petulant kid was stomping the ground refusing to give the ball up. This happened in practically a split second. He had the ball for what, 3 seconds? Ishbia wasn’t even looking at Jokic until he felt the ball getting tugged. In the moment it’s not surprising that he would react wondering “wait what is this guy doing?” The narrative that he was clutching the ball for some advantage is a bit extra. He looked like he was focused on helping the fan and okogie get up. The way he reacted I’m not sure he even realized he had the ball in his hand.
I don't think it's extra at all, especially from somebody with a basketball background. It's one thing not to release it, but it's quite another to literally knock it away from Jokic which he did. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
I’d say there is way less tolerance for a player entering the crowd. Jokic shouldn’t have gone there let alone initiate contact by trying to grab the ball away. Ishbia has every reason to have the ball but in the moment didn’t react well to Jokic… including clutching the ball. But he is not the one to initiate the confrontation. Jokic also knows the rules. He knows there is zero tolerance about entering the crowd and that it was a dead ball. Glad he wasn’t ejected or suspended but he’s pretty lucky he wasn’t.
Originally Posted by :
Golden State Warriors investor Mark Stevens has been fined $500,000 and banned from NBA games for a year for “pushing and directing obscene language toward” Raptor Kyle Lowry during Game 3 of the NBA Finals.
The NBA and the Golden State Warriors said in a statement on Thursday that Stevens, who owns a minority stake in the team, will not be permitted to attend games through the end of the 2019-20 season.
My suspicion would be that the owner wants to avoid anything like this happening to him. These two situations obviously aren't the same, but both involve altercations between owners and players arguably precipitated by the owner. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I don't think it's extra at all, especially from somebody with a basketball background. It's one thing not to release it, but it's quite another to literally knock it away from Jokic which he did.
How much time did Ishbia have to think about this?. He didn’t realize Jokic was even there until he felt someone tugging the ball away. Basketball background or not, you’re going to react when someone catches you by surprise like that. Even with a basketball background, you think a basketball player wouldn’t react badly if he was holding a dead ball and a player snuck from behind and yanked it from them?
It looked like a split second reaction not some kind of premeditated bratty move. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
How much time did Ishbia have to think about this?. He didn’t realize Jokic was even there until he felt someone tugging the ball away. Basketball background or not, you’re going to react when someone catches you by surprise like that. Even with a basketball background, you think a basketball player wouldn’t react badly if he was holding a dead ball and a player snuck from behind and yanked it from them?
It looked like a split second reaction not some kind of premeditated bratty move.
He looks right at Jokic as Jokic is trying to take the ball from him, doesn't release it, and then knocks the ball away from him. How are you making excuses for this?
Most people would not react like that to a NBA player trying to take a ball away from them at a NBA game. They would just hand it over. It doesn't take much to figure out what his reasons were for not doing so. He knew what Jokic was attempting to do. [Reply]
He was also aware of his senses enough to flop on any contact with Jokic. That exaggeration drew a technical foul but it could have easily been an ejection too. All indications are that he knew what he was doing. [Reply]
My suspicion would be that the owner wants to avoid anything like this happening to him. These two situations obviously aren't the same, but both involve altercations between owners and players arguably precipitated by the owner.
And that goes double for Jokic who knows there has been close to zero tolerance for players getting into it with fans. Isaiah was ejected for something very similar with no physical contact. Anthony Davis was ejected for getting into it from mid court. That zero tolerance is in place because of malice at the palace and the nba isn’t gonna want to give any leeway to players going into the crowd during a dead ball, let alone physically interacting.
Yeah of course shoving a player is electable. That’s why the one fan was booted. That’s ridiculous to even imply an owner should get even a slap on the wrist when it looked like his worst infraction was not paying attention to what he was doing while helping a fan get to his feet after getting plowed into. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
He looks right at Jokic as Jokic is trying to take the ball from him, doesn't release it, and then knocks the ball away from him. How are you making excuses for this?
Most people would not react like that to a NBA player trying to take a ball away from them at a NBA game. They would just hand it over. It doesn't take much to figure out what his reasons were for not doing so. He knew what Jokic was attempting to do.
Show the full clip. Ishbia doesn’t know Jokic is there until he feels the basketball getting tugged away. he reacted the way you might expect when someone catches you by surprise.
Most people standing literally right next to a player who barreled into the stands and into a few fans will probably, oh I don’t know… help the player and fan up. And that is obviously what ishbia was doing. His left arm is literally hooked around the fan and he is trying to help him up as he’s holding the basketball in his right arm. This happened within split seconds. Everything points to him reacting out of surprise in an instant, not some premeditated bratty move. [Reply]
This looks like an owner not releasing a live game ball and then stepping to a player after knocking the ball away. He deserved worse than what he got (which was nothing at all despite his sell job) and Jokic deserves nothing.
Look at this fucking twerp standing up with his chest out then flopping back like he'd been shot.
Here's pretty much the best view of how the thing went down. Minus the few seconds where Ishbia is looking at Okogie/the fan (not looking at Jokic). He pretty much double takes when Jokic tried to take the ball away. Acting like this was premeditated is a stretch and a half. He reacted not the best way but it looked mostly out of surprise. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Show the full clip. Ishbia doesn’t know Jokic is there until he feels the basketball getting tugged away. he reacted the way you might expect when someone catches you by surprise.
I've posted the full clip multiple times here. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt (for no good reason I can see), it is very unflattering to the owner however you look at it. He doesn't release the ball to Jokic, then knocks it away from Jokic, and then steps to Jokic and puts his hands on him before flopping at the slightest contact into his seat. How is anybody making excuses for that guy in this situation? [Reply]