Originally Posted by RunKC:
You don’t think Jawaan and Trey have struggled some in pass pro?
I don’t think Jawaan is by any means bad, but I think he’s had lapses recently. Well that and he got dog walked by Maxx Crosby. Not glaring but a bit frustrating.
I don't think they've been anything that the vast vast vast majority of NFL quarterbacks don't deal with.
I think for 80% of our offensive line Patrick Mahomes is getting, on aggregate, a performance on par or better than 90% of the NFL. Everything is relative and relative to his peers, no, I don't believe there's anything worth pinning the offensive struggles on for those guys.
And I also think that both Mahomes and Andy have made things substantially harder for all of them. I don't think Spencer Brown, for instance, is a better player than Taylor. But he's getting much easier responsibilities.
LT? Yeah - I'll give you that. Especially of late. But I'm not going to pretend like he's not gotten better protection from the other 4 guys than the overwhelming majority of his peers. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThyKingdomCome15:
Brown, Worthy, Hardman all on the field at the same time creates havoc for defenses to figure out. I do believe this is the end game for the stretch run.
Our interior line is the best in the league, or at least one of the top 3. RT maybe average but thats okay if you have that interior OL we do. and a average LT.
We whiffed on Williams. Not Veach's fault. He offered a top $ long term deal but he decided to stay in Dan Fran and not win SB's.
Until we suck enough to get up in the draft far enough to draft a long term solution at LT, this is our OL we will have for the foreseeable future. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
And it's not as if we didn't see this SAME EXACT issue last year.
I got news everyone, it wasn't just Donovan Smith that all the sudden elevated his game to serviceable levels in the playoffs leading them to win those games.
It was the entire unit rising to the challenge. 100% steady focus for the first time all year long. They felt that need to win maybe for the first time in those games. More opponent-specific game planning. The whole operation, Donovan included, raised up to a higher standard.
That's all we need to happen. Whether it's Thuney or Humphries. And it's very achievable, especially if you're only asking them to hold up for two home playoff games in which they'll be far more fresh than their opponent, as well as a Super Bowl with two weeks to prepare.
It should worry folks that we got largely what we asked for out of Thuney - as much as we should reasonably expect from Humphries - and the offense as a whole looked as bad as its looked all season. It might have been its worst game on balance.
Now personally I don't see what others saw with Thuney. I thought he got pushed around a fair bit. I DON'T think he was a noticeable improvement on Morris and ultimately I'd probably be happy putting a pin in that experiment going forward. Or at least I'd allow it only to the extent that it may allow Morris to get healthy again for a stretch run.
But for those that thought he stabilized the position - how do you explain away how god-awful that offense was Sunday? And if you don't think he did (I don't) what miracle pill do you see on the horizon that's going to fix this? [Reply]
I don't know how any one can not point fingers at Mahomes as the season wears on. Does he have good reason to not trust the protection and WR? Yeah I guess. But at some point players gotta play. He's in his own head about it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It should worry folks that we got largely what we asked for out of Thuney - as much as we should reasonably expect from Humphries - and the offense as a whole looked as bad as its looked all season. It might have been its worst game on balance.
Now personally I don't see what others saw with Thuney. I thought he got pushed around a fair bit. I DON'T think he was a noticeable improvement on Morris and ultimately I'd probably be happy putting a pin in that experiment going forward. Or at least I'd allow it only to the extent that it may allow Morris to get healthy again for a stretch run.
But for those that thought he stabilized the position - how do you explain away how god-awful that offense was Sunday? And if you don't think he did (I don't) what miracle pill do you see on the horizon that's going to fix this?
They forget Garret was out for a quarter and don't realize the amount of help he was getting. If Morris had that much help or hell even Kingsley they may both still be playing while Humphries gets in shape. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It should worry folks that we got largely what we asked for out of Thuney - as much as we should reasonably expect from Humphries - and the offense as a whole looked as bad as its looked all season. It might have been its worst game on balance.
Now personally I don't see what others saw with Thuney. I thought he got pushed around a fair bit. I DON'T think he was a noticeable improvement on Morris and ultimately I'd probably be happy putting a pin in that experiment going forward. Or at least I'd allow it only to the extent that it may allow Morris to get healthy again for a stretch run.
But for those that thought he stabilized the position - how do you explain away how god-awful that offense was Sunday? And if you don't think he did (I don't) what miracle pill do you see on the horizon that's going to fix this?
In that second half, I thought our biggest issues were play-calling, focus, and the QBs decision making.
I mean look at the play he got injured on. Thuney did exactly what you want. Mahomes decided to run straight forward into the interior and put his body in harms way instead of just settling somewhere in the middle and making the throw. Otherwise, why not take the escape hatch to the left (to Thuney's right), and either run for the three yards or find an outlet that way.
Mahomes has gotten himself hit a LOT lately. He's trying so hard to stay in the pocket and that's fine if he'd get rid of the ball in a more timely manner. Insert Brown, hopefully. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
We're doing alot of tapdancing around the fact that last year.....it wasn't just the OL or the WR's raising their level.
The QB played well. He's not played well this year.
What's this 'we' shit?
I've been cocking my head a bit sideways at Mahomes since the Lions game last season.
It's just so obvious that this offense goes as he goes -- and that's how it SHOULD be.
Too often over the last two seasons he just hasn't been sharp.
Now NONE of that precludes him being an absolute buzzsaw when the post-season starts. He's shown that he's capable of flipping that switch and kicking ass.
If your goal is winning the SB, there isn't a QB you'd rather have on your roster regardless of what he does in the regular season.
But the issues with this offense start with him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
In that second half, I thought our biggest issues were play-calling, focus, and the QBs decision making.
I mean look at the play he got injured on. Thuney did exactly what you want. Mahomes decided to run straight forward into the interior and put his body in harms way instead of just settling somewhere in the middle and making the throw. Otherwise, why not take the escape hatch to the left (to Thuney's right), and either run for the three yards or find an outlet that way.
Mahomes has gotten himself hit a LOT lately. He's trying so hard to stay in the pocket and that's fine if he'd get rid of the ball in a more timely manner. Insert Brown, hopefully.
Andy said something interesting in a post-game interview. He said, essentially, "You can't win in this league without passing the football..."
That tells me that they're still trying to figure this shit out. The reason they were throwing is they still don't know what works for them. They were treating the 2nd half like a scrimmage and calling passing plays to see if certain things worked.
I didn't get it in real time but as I heard Reid, it started to make a little more sense.
Originally Posted by O.city:
We're doing alot of tapdancing around the fact that last year.....it wasn't just the OL or the WR's raising their level.
The QB played well. He's not played well this year.
I know you've chosen to die on the hill that if Mahomes is getting paid so much, he has to play better. And you're right. But, if the OL plays better, Mahomes plays better also. No denying that. Two things can be right. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
In that second half, I thought our biggest issues were play-calling, focus, and the QBs decision making.
I mean look at the play he got injured on. Thuney did exactly what you want. Mahomes decided to run straight forward into the interior and put his body in harms way instead of just settling somewhere in the middle and making the throw. Otherwise, why not take the escape hatch to the left (to Thuney's right), and either run for the three yards or find an outlet that way.
Mahomes has gotten himself hit a LOT lately. He's trying so hard to stay in the pocket and that's fine if he'd get rid of the ball in a more timely manner. Insert Brown, hopefully.
But he's not "Staying in the pocket" he's running himself into alot of this. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TEX:
I know you've chosen to die on the hill that if Mahomes is getting paid so much, he has to play better. And you're right. But, if the OL plays better, Mahomes plays better also. No denying that. Two things can be right.
I think the difference in our respective outlooks is simple:
If the OL doesn't play any better at all than it did in the mid-season, this team can win a championship by Mahomes simply playing to his ability. Hitting the shots he has and not feeling phantom pressure. Stop moving yourself into contact, run the offense.
That doesn't mean things are going to be easy for him or that they're going to put up 40+. But with this OL playing as it did for the middle part of the season, Mahomes can raise his level to a place sufficient for us to win championships. We don't NEED a significant improvement at OL.
Meanwhile, if the OL were to become a brick wall and Mahomes were to STILL see phantom pressure and STILL miss open shots (or simply not throw them), we lose.
You're using the OL improvement as a proxy for Mahomes improvement and saying one is vital to the other. I'm saying the Mahomes improvement is ALL that matters. And even if the OL doesn't improve substantially, Mahomes getting even to his level of last post-season will be enough to 3-peat.
Originally Posted by TEX:
I know you've chosen to die on the hill that if Mahomes is getting paid so much, he has to play better. And you're right. But, if the OL plays better, Mahomes plays better also. No denying that. Two things can be right.
They've gotta cut corners somewhere when guys start making the money they are. It's just the way it is.
Some things will work out, some won't.
But if he doesn't play to a certain standard, we're pretty much drawing dead. [Reply]