So there's an article on NFL network saying that Orlando Brown is expected to sign for 6 years $145 mil.
That comes to $24.16 mil/yr and makes him the highest paid offensive lineman in football. It also would give him the 19th highest salary per year in the NFL
How would you feel if that is the contract he ended up signing?
I'm fine with it. He is a top 5 LT and he's only 26 next season. A young great LT is a guy you can't let leave. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TwistedChief:
We're not discussing "elite." We're discussing your ridiculous "bottom third" assertion.
Please provide anyone who has ranked him in the bottom third. Then we can start our discussion.
I promise I can find people who have ranked him ahead of the bottom third.
In a search that ranked all left tackles and not just their top 10, OBJ is ranked as follows.
PFF: 23RD
PFN: 19TH
So PFF has him bottom third, while PFN has him just creeping into the bottom of 2/3.
General review, against average competition, OBJ will dominate. Against good to great competition, he doesn't look good. Finds a way most weeks (ie; Patrick's elusiveness saving his ass) but simply finding a way is not going to stand the test of time for someone wanting to be paid #1 at the position.
So, ball is in your court. Show me who has this dude ranked any higher than the debatable 19th that Pro Football Network ranks him [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
8. Orlando Brown Jr. - Brown has made a successful and impressive transition back to his natural left side over the last two seasons after playing on the right side during his first two seasons in the NFL. Brown replaced an injured Ronnie Stanley for 13 games in 2020 for the Ravens and then started 16 games on the left side last season for the Chiefs. The transition over the last two years hasn’t been as much about switching sides since Brown played left tackle throughout college, but the scheme adjustment from Baltimore’s run-heavy approach to Kansas City’s more passing-based system was about as stark as you can get.
Brown performed at a high level last season, protecting QB Patrick Mahomes blindside, particularly as the year went on and he settled into his new role. Brown wins using his immense size and keen understanding of angles and body positioning to blot out rushers off the edge while bringing a tone-setting, imposing presence to an offense. His above average range to protect the corner can get stressed against high-end rushers that know how to set up their moves and win with speed, but Brown is firmly an above average, plus starter who is just entering his prime.
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
In a search that ranked all left tackles and not just their top 10, OBJ is ranked as follows.
PFF: 23RD
PFN: 19TH
So PFF has him bottom third, while PFN has him just creeping into the bottom of 2/3.
General review, against average competition, OBJ will dominate. Against good to great competition, he doesn't look good. Finds a way most weeks (ie; Patrick's elusiveness saving his ass) but simply finding a way is not going to stand the test of time for someone wanting to be paid #1 at the position.
So, ball is in your court. Show me who has this dude ranked any higher than the debatable 19th that Pro Football Network ranks him
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
Run blocking tank, in an offense led by the most talented passer the league has ever seen, coached by a man who is allergic to rushing the football.
Yes, let's blame the heart and soul of the team, Patrick Mahomes, for his shortcomings as a pass blocker.
**** out of here.
Throw out all the numbers you like, Brown doesn't pass the eye test. How many of us stood up in our living rooms shouting obscenities at this guy every time he faced a pass rusher that moved slightly faster than a Wal mart power cart?
Mahomes wizardry at avoiding the rush made Browns sacks allowed look a helluva lot better than 4.
Mahomes was a trainwreck in the pocket the first 6 games of the year. No left tackle is going to be able to block an elite speed rush to a depth of 9+ yards. Again, He's not a top 5 tackle, but he is far from the bottom 1/3 at age 26. I am glad the Chiefs didn't "Pay him" and I hope he proves it this year. However, what is your solution to fill that spot in place of OBJ moving forward? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
In a search that ranked all left tackles and not just their top 10, OBJ is ranked as follows.
PFF: 23RD
PFN: 19TH
So PFF has him bottom third, while PFN has him just creeping into the bottom of 2/3.
General review, against average competition, OBJ will dominate. Against good to great competition, he doesn't look good. Finds a way most weeks (ie; Patrick's elusiveness saving his ass) but simply finding a way is not going to stand the test of time for someone wanting to be paid #1 at the position.
So, ball is in your court. Show me who has this dude ranked any higher than the debatable 19th that Pro Football Network ranks him
Found them...
:-) This ratings include both RTs and LTs so 64 total starters. Thanks for pointing out that he is in the top 1/3 in one and close to the top 1/3 in the other... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
In a search that ranked all left tackles and not just their top 10, OBJ is ranked as follows.
PFF: 23RD
PFN: 19TH
So PFF has him bottom third, while PFN has him just creeping into the bottom of 2/3.
General review, against average competition, OBJ will dominate. Against good to great competition, he doesn't look good. Finds a way most weeks (ie; Patrick's elusiveness saving his ass) but simply finding a way is not going to stand the test of time for someone wanting to be paid #1 at the position.
So, ball is in your court. Show me who has this dude ranked any higher than the debatable 19th that Pro Football Network ranks him
The other thing I'll say is that these rankings weight game 1 the same as game 17. His first four games were easily his worst stretch of the entire season as per PFF (see below), and there's a great case to be made that was his getting comfortable in the system with Mahomes. If you (subjectively) remove those 4 games, it looks to me like the guy might move up 8-10 spots (though I'm not entirely sure how they weight things).
There is no objective way to rank left tackles across the league - it's a dumb argument.
Suffice to say that he's is the #1 left tackle option in Kansas City, and that isn't close.
He got beat ALL YEAR by speed rushes. that never improved. He never got better. Now, there is reason to hope that keeping his weight down will allow him the mobility to kick step more effectively and not get beat by that outside speed. We will see. Otherwise... play him on the tag and absolutely look to upgrade with an athletic LT. [Reply]
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
There is no objective way to rank left tackles across the league - it's a dumb argument.
Suffice to say that he's is the #1 left tackle option in Kansas City, and that isn't close.
He got beat ALL YEAR by speed rushes. that never improved. He never got better. Now, there is reason to hope that keeping his weight down will allow him the mobility to kick step more effectively and not get beat by that outside speed. We will see. Otherwise... play him on the tag and absolutely look to upgrade with an athletic LT.
I said it earlier in this thread, and I'll say it again:
Some people don't seem to understand what a true LOSS to a speed rush is.
If the speed rusher gets around the corner 12+ yards deep in the pocket: That's NOT a LOSS for the pass blocker
Early in the year, Mahomes was dropping too deep (a habit he picked up playing behind shitty lines in college and that having the bull rush-vulnerable Eric Fisher as his LT reinforced) in the pocket.
So outside rushers could go pure speed rush and know they could get home at 12 yards or deeper.
Once Mahomes became more disciplined with his drops and was not going deeper than 10 yards on his long drops, Brown's sack rate improved.
He's not an athletic dancing bear who's going to glide and glide and keep beating guys to the outside. But with slightly improved agility and a QB maneuvering the pocket correctly, that becomes much less of an issue than it was early in the year of 2021.
He IS a physical beast who forces pass rushers to be completely one-dimensional and rely on the speed rush to try and get home. He needs to max out his quickness and agility to the outside to improve, but all signs are that he's done that. [Reply]
Trade the guy to a run-centric team like the one he came from, and upgrade to a guy that fits your scheme.
A left tackle, blocking for Patrick Mahomes is never going to be in a Martyball offense. The guy gets beat like he stole something regularly.
This isn't news, and Brett Veach's unwillingness to guarantee money to a guy he already traded a first round pick to get reflects this.
Maybe the light comes on this year and he finds a way to handle pass rushers that move just a shade faster than geriatrics screw. That would be nice. Pass protection is always going to be the priority in a Reid/Mahomes offense.
With the way the AFC west has loaded up on pass rushers, the kid will get his chance to either prove himself, or spectacularly screw himself. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
Trade the guy to a run-centric team like the one he came from, and upgrade to a guy that fits your scheme.
A left tackle, blocking for Patrick Mahomes is never going to be in a Martyball offense. The guy gets beat like he stole something regularly.
This isn't news, and Brett Veach's unwillingness to guarantee money to a guy he already traded a first round pick to get reflects this.
Maybe the light comes on this year and he finds a way to handle pass rushers that move just a shade faster than geriatrics screw. That would be nice. Pass protection is always going to be the priority in a Reid/Mahomes offense.
With the way the AFC west has loaded up on pass rushers, the kid will get his chance to either prove himself, or spectacularly screw himself.
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
Trade the guy to a run-centric team like the one he came from, and upgrade to a guy that fits your scheme.
For the record and since you're the one who brought up PFF to support your argument, they grade him a fair bit higher in pass blocking than run blocking. [Reply]
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
Found them...
:-) This ratings include both RTs and LTs so 64 total starters. Thanks for pointing out that he is in the top 1/3 in one and close to the top 1/3 in the other...
You guys got lucky this guy is going to play on the Tag vs signing that deal. Not sure a division full of speed rushers is a good idea for a fat slow footed tackle. Trading a first for this guy was not smart. [Reply]
Originally Posted by GROB:
You guys got lucky this guy is going to play on the Tag vs signing that deal. Not sure a division full of speed rushers is a good idea for a fat slow footed tackle. Trading a first for this guy was not smart.
While I don't completely disagree with your first sentence and the general premise of your second, I'm still going to give you an overall reply of:
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler:
Trade the guy to a run-centric team like the one he came from, and upgrade to a guy that fits your scheme.
A left tackle, blocking for Patrick Mahomes is never going to be in a Martyball offense. The guy gets beat like he stole something regularly.
This isn't news, and Brett Veach's unwillingness to guarantee money to a guy he already traded a first round pick to get reflects this.
Maybe the light comes on this year and he finds a way to handle pass rushers that move just a shade faster than geriatrics screw. That would be nice. Pass protection is always going to be the priority in a Reid/Mahomes offense.
With the way the AFC west has loaded up on pass rushers, the kid will get his chance to either prove himself, or spectacularly screw himself.
Who are you replacing OBJ with at LT?
Provide a veteran or a draft prospect who will realistically be available for the Chiefs to get in 2023 who would be a legit upgrade. [Reply]
