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Nzoner's Game Room>EB getting passed again....
F150 11:11 AM 01-27-2022
I just can't figure this shit out.
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UK_Chief 11:13 AM 01-28-2022
“Here’s the thing…”

he seems like an amazing motivator and a great guy. I would say the players would run through walls for him. Maybe GMs think he’s better in that #2 motivation role?
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htismaqe 11:14 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
As if that's ever mattered before. The NFL is littered with HC's that have never called plays.
I think what he's saying is that some people are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

On the one hand, they're saying we don't need him and he can go coach somewhere else because he doesn't call plays and thus isn't instrumental to the offense' success.

At the same time, they're saying if he doesn't get a HC gig, we should just keep him and keep winning, which implies that he's somehow instrumental in the offense' success.

It can't really be both.
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chiefzilla1501 11:22 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I think what he's saying is that some people are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

On the one hand, they're saying we don't need him and he can go coach somewhere else because he doesn't call plays and thus isn't instrumental to the offense' success.

At the same time, they're saying if he doesn't get a HC gig, we should just keep him and keep winning, which implies that he's somehow instrumental in the offense' success.

It can't really be both.
It can be if the chiefs have succession planning, which they clearly do. We’re all comfortable that Kafka can do this and do it well. It’s not because he’d be better or worse. It’s that it’s always healthy to try ideas and the logjam behind him isn’t good for our staff. It took a very proactive effort to keep Kafka on the staff and he shouldn’t have to take residual damage from this. EB isn’t going to a great team to make them better. He will go to a team that failed and is looking to bring winning ways to that group. Most of his ideas will be new ideas. That’s way different than in kc where he’s largely just trying to keep a ship moving.
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htismaqe 11:25 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
It can be if the chiefs have succession planning, which they clearly do. We’re all comfortable that Kafka can do this and do it well. It’s not because he’d be better or worse. It’s that it’s always healthy to try ideas and the logjam behind him isn’t good for our staff. It took a very proactive effort to keep Kafka on the staff and he shouldn’t have to take residual damage from this. EB isn’t going to a great team to make them better. He will go to a team that failed and is looking to bring winning ways to that group. Most of his ideas will be new ideas. That’s way different than in kc where he’s largely just trying to keep a ship moving.
What you're saying is that EB is not instrumental to our success. He's easily replaceable.

So my point pretty much stands.
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RealSNR 11:34 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
What you're saying is that EB is not instrumental to our success. He's easily replaceable.

So my point pretty much stands.
Doug Pederson was easily replaced. He's still a Super Bowl-winning head coach. And it's not like you can point to him just taking credit for the work of other guys, unless we're going to argue Chip Kelly was actually a good head coach.

How much work did Bill Walsh assistants do? I'm asking because I actually don't know. Did any of the offensive guys call plays (if that's the sticky wicket). What about that Mike Holmgren tree in Green Bay? What the hell did Andy Reid actually do on that team other than be a position coach and "assistant head coach" for a couple seasons. What even the hell is an assistant head coach? You mean a coordinator? If that's the case, why do so many assistant head coaches not get the nod as interim if a guy gets fired mid-season?

Working under and for a successful system isn't necessarily a black mark on what a guy does. Bieniemy may end up leaving, and the guy replacing him will probably appear to do a great job. That doesn't mean EB and the guys before him weren't actually good or important to the success and outcomes. It just means Andy Reid is the goddamn king at coaching his coaches.
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chiefzilla1501 11:35 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
What you're saying is that EB is not instrumental to our success. He's easily replaceable.

So my point pretty much stands.
Well, he’s not the boss man. Andy Reid is. Bieniemy learned the Reid way of winning. Kafka has had several years to prepare for this. He is not easily replaced. He is replaceable by the few talented people in Andy Reid’s pipeline he trusts to carry the torch. Big companies don’t sweat a cfo change. They are always thinking about succession planning. Kafka by the way is probably good enough to be a head coach himself in a few years.

I don’t think you could just plug any experienced coach in there and succeed. I think that undermines how hard it must be to earn the trust of Andy Reid to make him your top guy.
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chiefzilla1501 11:40 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Doug Pederson was easily replaced. He's still a Super Bowl-winning head coach. And it's not like you can point to him just taking credit for the work of other guys, unless we're going to argue Chip Kelly was actually a good head coach.

How much work did Bill Walsh assistants do? I'm asking because I actually don't know. Did any of the offensive guys call plays (if that's the sticky wicket). What about that Mike Holmgren tree in Green Bay? What the hell did Andy Reid actually do on that team other than be a position coach and "assistant head coach" for a couple seasons. What even the hell is an assistant head coach? You mean a coordinator? If that's the case, why do so many assistant head coaches not get the nod as interim if a guy gets fired mid-season?

Working under and for a successful system isn't necessarily a black mark on what a guy does. Bieniemy may end up leaving, and the guy replacing him will probably appear to do a great job. That doesn't mean EB and the guys before him weren't actually good or important to the success and outcomes. It just means Andy Reid is the goddamn king at coaching his coaches.
Pederson is a key distinction. You don’t sense he trusted him much and it’s probably because he was learning the job on the job. Unlike Nagy and bieniemy who had time to learn the Reid way but also because they basically had an interview with Reid every single day for several years. If bieniemy left suddenly and took a bunch of staff with him that would be one thing. But we’ve obviously been grooming Kafka for years.
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RealSNR 11:42 AM 01-28-2022
Random trivia question that I happened to discover myself when trying to make a point about EB and Andy Reid assistants. It's not that hard, but still interesting to think about.

There is one guy and only one guy who has been with Andy Reid on his staff for every single year of Reid's head coaching career. Hasn't missed one season. Do you know who it is?

Spoiler!

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mililo4cpa 11:42 AM 01-28-2022
Just listening to EB pressers, I have a hard time imagining that he interviews poorly....he is very well spoken and articulate, and his postive attitude is pretty infectious.

Of course, we don't know how much Xs and Os he has to discuss in the interviews, and I'm wondering if maybe that is the hiccup. It's one thing to craft a game plan, and obviously, he is a huge part in that in KC, but it's quite another thing to be directly responsible for creating the details necessary to be able to build a game plan.

Maybe in that regard, being Andy Reid's OC, and having the benefit of input and performance from Pat, Travis, and Reek actually hurt him. Is it possible that he cannot articulate X's and O's from anything other than what Reid feeds him?
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RealSNR 11:49 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by mililo4cpa:
Maybe in that regard, being Andy Reid's OC, and having the benefit of input and performance from Pat, Travis, and Reek actually hurt him. Is it possible that he cannot articulate X's and O's from anything other than what Reid feeds him?
But what does that mean, even?

We know Andy expects his OCs to contribute to the playbook and create. Maybe Reid doesn't accept all of their ideas, and most of that new stuff is probably Reid's, but we have for sure run plays this season that came directly from the brain of Eric Bieniemy.

So EB can draw up a play, and he obviously knows the AR playbook, but he can't describe or show or talk about these concepts in an interview?
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chiefzilla1501 11:53 AM 01-28-2022
Originally Posted by mililo4cpa:
Just listening to EB pressers, I have a hard time imagining that he interviews poorly....he is very well spoken and articulate, and his postive attitude is pretty infectious.

Of course, we don't know how much Xs and Os he has to discuss in the interviews, and I'm wondering if maybe that is the hiccup. It's one thing to craft a game plan, and obviously, he is a huge part in that in KC, but it's quite another thing to be directly responsible for creating the details necessary to be able to build a game plan.

Maybe in that regard, being Andy Reid's OC, and having the benefit of input and performance from Pat, Travis, and Reek actually hurt him. Is it possible that he cannot articulate X's and O's from anything other than what Reid feeds him?
I actually think that plays to his advantage. You would think, at least. Nagy tanked because he was so damn stubborn about playcalling. I could see bieniemy hiring an OC and giving him lots of authority. I would agree this could be the hiccup and if it is, that’s just dumb.

The fairer question is if he can lead the team. That’s the part I’m not so sure about and we just can’t tell from interviews. We’ve seen tough coordinators who become too tough on players once they become head coach. You’ve seen guys like Romeo who are way too nice or way too interested in the film room that he ignores the basics and fundamentals. Or coordinators who love coaching and get frustrated with the day to day stuff that’s important but potential distracting. It’s very possible that’s the hiccup and if so, I get it. I just can’t understand anyone who’d deny him given his accomplishments just because he isn’t a primary playcaller.
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ChiefsCountry 12:23 PM 01-28-2022
It's the legal issues from Colorado.
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LongSufferingToady 04:41 PM 01-28-2022
The only thing I can think of is that Eric must be a terrible in-person interview for all his smarts and expertise. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Perhaps, like many of us, he gets extremely anxious when interviewing for jobs.
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MAHOMO 4 LIFE! 05:30 PM 01-28-2022
Daboll new head coach of the Giants
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Phoneix 05:32 PM 01-28-2022
Mayyyybe …and hear me out …this is Andy’s last run and he knows it. EB will slide in and fill in for Andy and Kafka will be the OC.
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