Originally Posted by O.city:
If I got paid to be a financial advisor, I’d be expected to have a pretty good idea on trends and value.
Similarly, if I’m a gm, I need to understand the market and see where it’s headed in terms of players and value.
Up to this point, the frank Clark trade isn’t very valuable.
Clowney cost them a 3rd and the money for a year. Come on man, this isn’t hard
Nobody could have predicted that trade. We were all shocked that Seattle got him that cheap.
And even with that, the guy has 2 sacks. So...are they gonna pay him the big money he is wanting? For 4 (projected) sacks?
Again I agree with you that the compensation was bad. I hated it as much as anyone. I still think he’s the player we got and has the potential to be good.
Let’s see what happens in the 2nd half of the season and January. That will tell us a lot. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Nobody could have predicted that trade. We were all shocked that Seattle got him that cheap.
And even with that, the guy has 2 sacks. So...are they gonna pay him the big money he is wanting? For 4 (projected) sacks?
Again I agree with you that the compensation was bad. I hated it as much as anyone. I still think he’s the player we got and has the potential to be good.
Let’s see what happens in the 2nd half of the season and January. That will tell us a lot.
No, I wouldn't pay him the big money he wants, but you wouldn't have to. You have flexibility. The Chiefs don't now with Clark inked long term and underperforming.
If it's that bad to pay him for only 4 projected sacks, what does that say for the Chiefs paying Clark what they are for 6? [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
O.City nobody could have ****ing known the Texans would end up with no GM and go full retard.
Don’t even pretend like Veach should’ve seen that coming. You want to bitch about the trade itself? Fine, but that’s just unfair and silly to say he should’ve seen that coming. For crying out loud, the Texans wanted the same compensation we gave up for Clark at the time.
It's not about predicting it, it's about having the ability to be there when the opportunity presents itself.
Plus it's BoB at GM. You know he's gonna do dumb shit.
It's all sunk cost at this point anyway, but it's looking like it just wasnt' a good allocation of resources. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
No, I wouldn't pay him the big money he wants, but you wouldn't have to. You have flexibility. The Chiefs don't now with Clark inked long term and underperforming.
If it's that bad to pay him for only 4 projected sacks, what does that say for the Chiefs paying Clark what they are for 6?
You guys would be bitching at Veach if he was in this situation bc we’d have zero pass rush. The Seahawks pass rush sucks now that Frank is gone. They have 15 sacks in 9 games and 5 of them are from LB’s. They are on pace for less than 30 sacks which is well below par.
They drafted guys early like Rasheem Green and LJ Collier...minimal return.
They don’t have flexibility. They are basically forced to pay Clowney bc without him they have (literally) nothing else at DE.
The Clark trade has not been up to par so far. I agree. But we are 9 games in. We signed Clark to sack Brady.
The value of that trade will be magnified in the 2nd half of the season and specifically, the playoffs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
You guys would be bitching at Veach if he was in this situation bc we’d have zero pass rush. The Seahawks pass rush sucks now that Frank is gone. They have 15 sacks in 9 games and 5 of them are from LB’s. They are on pace for less than 30 sacks which is well below par.
They drafted guys early like Rasheem Green and LJ Collier...minimal return.
They don’t have flexibility. They are basically forced to pay Clowney bc without him they have (literally) nothing else at DE.
The Clark trade has not been up to par so far. I agree. But we are 9 games in. We signed Clark to sack Brady.
The value of that trade will be magnified in the 2nd half of the season and specifically, the playoffs.
Why would we have no pass rush? We haven't had Clark the last 2 weeks and have lead the league in sacks and pressures.
It's funny we can judge other teams picks their rookie year, but we're still holding out hope for Chiefs players 3 years in.
They aren't forced to pay Clowney if they don't want to. They can move on from him, get a comp pick, trade for or sign whoever now. They aren't tied to him after this year is the point. [Reply]
If the guy costs us Chris Jones, the trade is a disaster.
Full stop.
Jones is better at EVERYTHING on a football field than Frank Clark is. He's a better DT and if given steady reps, he'd be a better DE. He's better at getting to the QB and has more potential against the run.
In no world does Frank Clark even have a chance to be as good a football player as Chris Jones and there's an excellent possibility that we lose Jones due to the idiotic contract we gave Clark. And even if we do manage to keep them both, we'll be surrounding them with nothing AND we won't have the 2 young players we could've had with the high picks we gave for Clark.
The trade was bad. Clark can do some things to make it less bad and things can happen to make it absolutely abysmal. Losing Chris Jones for a 2nd (because somehow Veach will fail to leverage his premium asset - again) because we had to give a 1st and 2nd for Frank Clark would just be a monumental kick in the dick. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
If the guy costs us Chris Jones, the trade is a disaster.
Full stop.
Jones is better at EVERYTHING on a football field than Frank Clark is. He's a better DT and if given steady reps, he'd be a better DE. He's better at getting to the QB and has more potential against the run.
In no world does Frank Clark even have a chance to be as good a football player as Chris Jones and there's an excellent possibility that we lose Jones due to the idiotic contract we gave Clark. And even if we do manage to keep them both, we'll be surrounding them with nothing AND we won't have the 2 young players we could've had with the high picks we gave for Clark.
The trade was bad. Clark can do some things to make it less bad and things can happen to make it absolutely abysmal. Losing Chris Jones for a 2nd (because somehow Veach will fail to leverage his premium asset - again) because we had to give a 1st and 2nd for Frank Clark would just be a monumental kick in the dick.
They can easily keep Jones if they want to. They have $22 million in the bank and have yet to cut expendable pieces like Sorenson, LDT and Sammy.
Veach has found cheap effective players who are performing. Ogbah, Nandi, Saunders, Hardman, Thornhill, Ward, Rankin, Butker. The coaching staff is also getting the most out these young guys, with Kpass being the shining example.
Dorsey was known as the “value guy” and that’s why people loved him. Well guess what? Veach has proven he is just as good at finding value and that is exactly what we need from a GM in charge of a team paying a QB a $200 million dollar deal.
So the bitching about Veach is pretty interesting. Veach got killed in the compensation for Frank Clark. We all agree there. But let me ask you something: whose team is rushing the passer better right now?
Seattle (15 sacks) or the team that lost Ford, Houston and has Jones and Clark underperforming relative to their seasons last year?
Also, enough of this “Veach is getting fleeced all the time” shit. He got taken to the cleaners on 1 deal. That’s it.
The deal for Dee Ford was fair value considering his injury history. That should be obvious.
Veach absolutely raped the Rams for Marcus Peters. The Rams gave up a 2nd rd pick, which ended up being Juan Thornhill, for a guy that pissed them off so badly that they got rid of him after one year.
Marcus Peters depreciated so poorly that he was worth a 2nd rd pick in 2018 and only one year later was worth a JAG and a 5th. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
They can easily keep Jones if they want to. They have $22 million in the bank and have yet to cut expendable pieces like Sorenson, LDT and Sammy.
Veach has found cheap effective players who are performing. Ogbah, Nandi, Saunders, Hardman, Thornhill, Ward, Rankin, Butker. The coaching staff is also getting the most out these young guys, with Kpass being the shining example.
Dorsey was known as the “value guy” and that’s why people loved him. Well guess what? Veach has proven he is just as good at finding value and that is exactly what we need from a GM in charge of a team paying a QB a $200 million dollar deal.
So the bitching about Veach is pretty interesting. Veach got killed in the compensation for Frank Clark. We all agree there. But let me ask you something: whose team is rushing the passer better right now?
Seattle (15 sacks) or the team that lost Ford, Houston and has Jones and Clark underperforming relative to their seasons last year?
That’s your answer
I've gone over this already.
No, they cannot 'easily' keep Chris Jones. At all. It's going to take serious sacrifices across the board on that defense. Even mediocre options like Ragland are out the door.
And if you think getting a 3rd round pick for Dee Ford (roughly the value of the following season's second), very probably the best pure pass-rusher in football in 2018, isn't a fleecing - well you're just grading on a curve at that point.
As for your Seattle question - I'm struggling to come up with the relevance here. Seattle HAS their superstar QB on a big-boy contract so they had tough decisions they had to make to fit all those pieces together. They did what they could in allocating those resources. If they'd have kept this version of Frank Clark on their roster, they'd have been no better off.
We're going to have to make those same decisions very shortly and by surrendering significant assets to acquire Frank Clark AND giving him a contract that was out of line with any productivity he had exhibited at any point in his NFL career, we've made things extremely difficult going forward. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The Chiefs just had their best game defensively on a day your sweet baboo didn't even take the field.
Maybe you oughta sit the next few plays out. Frank Clark's made no difference to this team at all after you sucked his dick for 6 months.
Umm what?
Did you even read the post I was responding to? I’m not defending the Clark trade. I’m defending Veach’s other trades. I’ve said over and over that the compensation was too much, but there’s nothing we can do about that now.
Keep acting like the book is closed on Clark though. It’s going to be funny when he comes up big down the stretch. [Reply]
Did you even read the post I was responding to? I’m not defending the Clark trade. I’m defending Veach’s other trades. I’ve said over and over that the compensation was too much, but there’s nothing we can do about that now.
Keep acting like the book is closed on Clark though. It’s going to be funny when he comes up big down the stretch.
Other trades have been good and cheap. Lets keep doing that and quit with these big ones. [Reply]