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Nzoner's Game Room>Craig Stout: Chris Jones has been lining up at DE a TON at OTAs.
Direckshun 09:02 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Again, this isn’t simply about “appealing to authority”.
The argument that "we're just fans so we should trust the staff" is literally an appeal to authority.

Now there is a version of that is indisputable: that they do this for a living, that they are operating on muuuuuch more information than we are, and therefore they deserve the benefit of the doubt, etc. That's indisputable.

But the idea they're above questioning is laughable and a waste of my time.
[Reply]
staylor26 09:05 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
The argument that "we're just fans so we should trust the staff" is literally an appeal to authority.

Now there is a version of that is indisputable: that they do this for a living, that they are operating on muuuuuch more information than we are, and therefore they deserve the benefit of the doubt, etc. That's indisputable.

But the idea they're above questioning is laughable and a waste of my time.
Read the rest of my fucking post, then get back to me:

Originally Posted by :
It’s about you being one of the biggest morons on this forum, yet questioning the pros that are the best in the business at every single fucking turn.

Everybody here is capable of being critical of the Chiefs, but we find it pretty fucking hilarious and pathetic that you CONSTANTLY are.

You never give them the benefit of the doubt, which makes it pretty obvious that you honestly think you know better than they do. It’s not “appealing to authority” to point out that they absolutely know what they’re doing, and you don’t.
It isn’t appealing to authority to point out that if it’s always Direckshun vs. Reid/Veach/Spags, you’re going to be wrong 90% of the time.
[Reply]
RunKC 09:06 AM 06-18-2021
It’s fine to trust the staff and still have questions. Our staff is good but our pass rush aside from blitzes wasn’t good. It doesn’t look like it will be much better this season, at least at the present moment.
[Reply]
RealSNR 04:20 PM 06-17-2021
We’re also going on like Year 5 of being weak at CB.

“We need corners! Why the hell did we draft this chump and not a CB? Don’t the Chiefs see this massive hole at the position??!!!”

Are we gonna have to go through the same thing for the next several years with DE? Fans bitching about a particular position while the Chiefs are totally fine with what they’ve got because it’s just not as important to what they run?

If only the Chiefs would listen to the fans more!
[Reply]
staylor26 04:36 PM 06-17-2021
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
We’re also going on like Year 5 of being weak at CB.

“We need corners! Why the hell did we draft this chump and not a CB? Don’t the Chiefs see this massive hole at the position??!!!”

Are we gonna have to go through the same thing for the next several years with DE? Fans bitching about a particular position while the Chiefs are totally fine with what they’ve got because it’s just not as important to what they run?

If only the Chiefs would listen to the fans more!
Fire Veach and hire Direckshun? We can fly a banner!
[Reply]
Chris Meck 08:06 PM 06-17-2021
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
We’re also going on like Year 5 of being weak at CB.

“We need corners! Why the hell did we draft this chump and not a CB? Don’t the Chiefs see this massive hole at the position??!!!”

Are we gonna have to go through the same thing for the next several years with DE? Fans bitching about a particular position while the Chiefs are totally fine with what they’ve got because it’s just not as important to what they run?

If only the Chiefs would listen to the fans more!
for a minute there, I was like...what? weak at corner?

And then I realized it was SARCASM.
[Reply]
Direckshun 09:00 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
We’re also going on like Year 5 of being weak at CB.

“We need corners! Why the hell did we draft this chump and not a CB? Don’t the Chiefs see this massive hole at the position??!!!”

Are we gonna have to go through the same thing for the next several years with DE? Fans bitching about a particular position while the Chiefs are totally fine with what they’ve got because it’s just not as important to what they run?

If only the Chiefs would listen to the fans more!
I'm sorry but at least a couple of those years, people complaining about the corners were right.

They've been wrong since Spags arrived, however, because Sam Madison has been the best position coach on the team.

Except for last year, it's been reasonable to worry about the corner position, because the resources invested there have been minimal and the talent all entered the season with huge questions.

I don't know how applicable that is to this situation.
[Reply]
RealSNR 09:32 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I'm sorry but at least a couple of those years, people complaining about the corners were right.

They've been wrong since Spags arrived, however, because Sam Madison has been the best position coach on the team.

Except for last year, it's been reasonable to worry about the corner position, because the resources invested there have been minimal and the talent all entered the season with huge questions.

I don't know how applicable that is to this situation.
Building a football team is tough, man. You know this. If there's a market inefficiency at a certain position because you have an insanely good coaching staff or because the coverages you draw up don't require the absolute best talent in the world, you roll with that plan. Each and every time.

Fans screamed about the CB position, not realizing that it was one of those things that the Chiefs just didn't care as much about. And those fans didn't know what the Chiefs knew about their team. And guess what? Those fans were wrong.

Who's to say the exact same situation isn't taking place with DE? Reid and the Chiefs have repeatedly said that QBs are getting too good and getting the ball out of their hands too quickly to just rely on your outside pass rush talent to pressure the QB. If you want that pressure, you're going to have to collapse the interior of the pocket because the shorter distance from DT to QB can make the difference when you only have 2 seconds to make a play or disrupt something. So what if that's exactly what the Chiefs are doing by getting explosive guys like Jones and Reed and allowing their DEs to not be as expensive provided they do the other parts of their jobs well? Remember when the plan was Alex Okafor for that opposite DE spot? And his backup Tanoh Kpassagnon, a dude who in the 3-4 was all but a giant bust (and still isn't that great, but being meh is better than sucking). Or how about Old Man Suggs? We've done just fine with those meh dudes at one of the DE spots all while Frank Clark drinks goat piss on the other side.

If the Chiefs valued the DE/Edge rush position the way common NFL pundits say you should (it being the third most important position behind QB and LT) then why would they go three straight offseasons without bothering to spend more than low tier free agent dollars or 5th round picks at one of the positions? It's not just, "Whoops we ran out of money." Football is a game of priorities, and along the way, there were any number of positions that the Chiefs could have opted to not pay/acquire/draft all so they could shore up talent at the DE spot.

I don't know about you, but what it says to me is the Chiefs are exploiting a market inefficiency in ways we don't understand because we're not privy to the player information they have. It's possible that they believe the league overvalues DE by a slight bit, and have instead chosen to spend picks and cash on the interior.
[Reply]
Direckshun 01:02 PM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Building a football team is tough, man. You know this. If there's a market inefficiency at a certain position because you have an insanely good coaching staff or because the coverages you draw up don't require the absolute best talent in the world, you roll with that plan. Each and every time.

Fans screamed about the CB position, not realizing that it was one of those things that the Chiefs just didn't care as much about. And those fans didn't know what the Chiefs knew about their team. And guess what? Those fans were wrong.

Who's to say the exact same situation isn't taking place with DE? Reid and the Chiefs have repeatedly said that QBs are getting too good and getting the ball out of their hands too quickly to just rely on your outside pass rush talent to pressure the QB. If you want that pressure, you're going to have to collapse the interior of the pocket because the shorter distance from DT to QB can make the difference when you only have 2 seconds to make a play or disrupt something. So what if that's exactly what the Chiefs are doing by getting explosive guys like Jones and Reed and allowing their DEs to not be as expensive provided they do the other parts of their jobs well? Remember when the plan was Alex Okafor for that opposite DE spot? And his backup Tanoh Kpassagnon, a dude who in the 3-4 was all but a giant bust (and still isn't that great, but being meh is better than sucking). Or how about Old Man Suggs? We've done just fine with those meh dudes at one of the DE spots all while Frank Clark drinks goat piss on the other side.

If the Chiefs valued the DE/Edge rush position the way common NFL pundits say you should (it being the third most important position behind QB and LT) then why would they go three straight offseasons without bothering to spend more than low tier free agent dollars or 5th round picks at one of the positions? It's not just, "Whoops we ran out of money." Football is a game of priorities, and along the way, there were any number of positions that the Chiefs could have opted to not pay/acquire/draft all so they could shore up talent at the DE spot.

I don't know about you, but what it says to me is the Chiefs are exploiting a market inefficiency in ways we don't understand because we're not privy to the player information they have. It's possible that they believe the league overvalues DE by a slight bit, and have instead chosen to spend picks and cash on the interior.
Missed this post, SNR. My apologies.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of this post. I personally value edgerushers a lot more than the current Chiefs apparently do. It is a philosophical difference I have with them.
[Reply]
Halfcan 08:47 PM 06-17-2021
Stone Cold Jones and the Shark are going to dominate this season.
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O.city 09:53 AM 06-18-2021
I’d say a lot of that is because they’re already paying such a premium for frank clark and only have so much allowed there. Plus most legit de pass rushers are drafted high and we aren’t ever drafting high
[Reply]
staylor26 09:57 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
I’d say a lot of that is because they’re already paying such a premium for frank clark and only have so much allowed there. Plus most legit de pass rushers are drafted high and we aren’t ever drafting high
They could’ve just as easily used the money they spent on Reed to get an edge rusher.

I think it’s pretty obvious that they value interior pass rush more at this point.
[Reply]
O.city 09:57 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
They could’ve just as easily used the money they spent on Reed to get an edge rusher.

I think it’s pretty obvious that they value interior pass rush more at this point.
1 year 8 million for which pass rusher tho?
[Reply]
staylor26 09:58 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
1 year 8 million for which pass rusher tho?
They still have cap space on top of that…
[Reply]
RealSNR 10:02 AM 06-18-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
1 year 8 million for which pass rusher tho?
They've had three years to get somebody better than Alex Okafor at the opposite DE position.

Again, if they valued the position like everybody says they need to value it, they would have invested in it. They've clearly chosen not to because they value other positions/players more.
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