[Reply]

Trade him. There are a lot of teams who could use Lamar to resurrect sagging fanbases. He would do that with ease.
[Reply]

Yeah, I'm not going to be concerned about Mahomes ignoring the flat unless a team like, the Chargers, who have historically have had the most consistent success providing resistance against Hill and Kelce, are able to neutralize them in the red zone* like TB did in the SB. If CEH is a non-factor in the rare case where a defense can neutralize BOTH Hill and Kelce, then I think it becomes a legitimate concern. But in the case where Hill and Kelce are feasting? That's okay.

It would do a lot for my confidence in CEH, however, to see him come up big in that way at least a couple of times this season. Damien and Hunt would always come up huge in those situations when they needed to, seeing CEH do the same would go a long way in giving us confidence that he can be the featured back in this offense when we need him to.
[Reply]

The only thing that "neutralized" them was PMII running for his life the whole ****ing game.
[Reply]

I meant to say neutralize in the red zone* and edited my post to reflect that.

In the red zone is where Damien would feast historically in the playoffs (when other teams put all their resources on Hill and Kelce and we really needed a secondary option to step up against Tampa. This did not happen and we felt it. If CEH continues to disappear in those situations then that's when I'll be concerned. But it's more than likely he was not 100% in the SB and that was the cause of those issues.
[Reply]

A) CEH didn't exactly disappear in that game. He was fine, if a little underutilized as the game script got away from us.

B) There was no 'secondary option' that was going to pull that game from the flames. Some BS penalties in the first half put us in a hole that allowed the Bucs to pin their ears and target an absolute disaster of an OL. That really could've been one of those 40+ point historically bad drubbings but/for Mahomes being Mahomes.

In games like that there's just not much you can do. Once the avalanche starts you just kinda roll with it and wait to dig your way out when its over.
[Reply]

CEH averaged over 7 YPC in the SB. The problem was that the run game went out of the window when the Bucs got a big lead early.
[Reply]

He had 2 catches in the SB. Which indicates either a scheme issue (as DJ suggested) or that Patrick and CEH were not in sync during the game.

No one wants to admit this, but Tampa did a good job getting their hands in the faces of our receivers down the field. Quick, intermediate passes or designed plays to CEH seem like that would have been a good options in that situation. But as DJ said, the game got away from us, and there were more pressing issues (like our trash can of a line).

If CEH has one impactful game as a receiver, my concern about this will be completely resolved. He was drafted in large part due to his receiving out of the backfield, and I have big expectations for him to emerge in that capacity. I've never had an issue with him as a running back.
[Reply]

And the flat passes are a lot like the run game - the number of times you have to do it to 'establish' it is often overstated.

You don't need to run the ball 25 times to get teams to respect a play action. You need to do it maybe half that. And you don't need to throw the ball into the flats a dozen times to get safeties/LBs to respect it. 3-4 times where you take easy money and a free first down will get them to keep an eye on the route.

It's not something I'm worried about at all. The short passing game to the RBs is something that Reid made his name on early in his coaching career. He knows how to get backs into space if he thinks that's what needs to be done.
[Reply]

I'll also say that CEH did look quite a bit better in the 2nd half on a re-watch. He still didn't look like a gamebreaker, but he looked like he was capable of staying ahead of the sticks against light boxes.

He had something like 10 carries for 40ish yards in that 2nd half. And probably 7-8 of those carries were for 3+ yards and only a couple of those were for for 3 even. If he's clipping off 4 yards/carry against those deep formations, sooner or later the safeties will sneak up. They can't just let KC trot walk down the field.

He's just not a homerun hitter. I think most RBs with big YPC numbers are usually doing the same kind of 3, 4, 1, 5, 2, 9, 4 sorts of patterns CEH is likely to do but then they'll pop off a 40 yarder that gooses that average. CEH just doesn't seem to have that long gear that will get him many of those.

So his YPC may stay fairly pedestrian. But if his standard deviation on a 4 YPC sort of average is small, that will work well enough. It isn't exactly what you want, but it will complement the passing game okay. It's not worth a 1st round pick but if you're looking for silver linings, that's the best I can offer.
[Reply]

Yeah, this all makes sense. Ideally, you want to see him ripping off more 7-15 yard runs, but he isn't going to make a lot of 20+ yard plays.

He had 8 carries for 32 yards in the second half, before the last "kill the clock" drive (2 for 4 on that one).

DeAndre Swift was the guy I was "on" headed into that draft, and I think in hindsight would have been a better pick. One thing I don't get is why they don't use angle routes at ALL with CEH. It's something he was absolute MONEY on at LSU, and it's a really nice complement/counter to flat routes that are so common for RBs. It also seems like if he runs that angle/arrow route from the opposite side of the field as Kelce (i.e. Kelce aligned right, CEH flares to left and then cuts back right) it would work really nicely on routes where Kelce is progressing from right to left. Makes the defense choose which direction it flows and also likely frees CEH up a bunch.

He's so elusive and powerful against a single defender in space, I'm surprised we haven't see it more. Seems like a money maker on 3rd downs.
[Reply]

CEH did have alot of catches at LSU, but was it really becasue he excelled at it or was it more "their QB threw it a shitload so it was just about what you'd expect"?

I dunno. He is fine with it, I think he's a solid player. But not worth a first at this point.
[Reply]

Well, they had tremendous talent - outstanding OL, excellent WR (Justin Jefferson, Jamarr Chase), best QB in the league - and he was the 3rd option.

But if you watched them much, he caught 55 balls (3.75/game) and they were not just dump offs. Joe Brady had Edwards-Helaire running real routes... wheels. Flats. Angle/arrows. The flat/angle routes were usually true 4-stem routes, with him having the option of continuing to the flat, angling to the middle, hitting the seam, or running a corner route.

He ran those routes smoothly and dynamically. Maybe they don't translate to the NFL - maybe that lack of elite speed plays them down - but it still surprises me we don't see more advanced routes out of CEH in the passing game.
[Reply]

Yeah, I'm just kinda rounding to the conclusion that they either don't want him doing it or he can't or something. Andy has always liked to have dudes do that, ie Westrbook who I thought CEH would be, and maybe he gets there.

But not yet.
[Reply]

It could be the ankle in terms of that. I did notice the second half was "better".

The OL played pretty well for the first under fire game. They blocked some stuff up nicely and seemed to always be just 1 extra second block away from really busting one.
[Reply]