Posting this here because it feels much more likely to be a viable intelligent conversation right now and not a bunch of ‘fuck you fuck him!!!’.....
Alright. So what do you guys think we should do/will do with him now?
I think it’s prisoner of the moment thinking to say they should let him go based on the one play last night. But that doesn’t mean that it is or isn’t the right move necessarily. We’ve also got to consider that this front 4 could be even more lethal with a new DC.
The way I see it, it’s either tag or tag & trade. And I guess for me it would come down to where the cap sits and how much I can get back in said potential trade.
Keep him unless somebody knows how to replace 15.5 sacks for less money. I sure don't. He's one of the only players who gave the defense a chance. [Reply]
I think I am okay with whatever they do, there's a few lines of thought here:
1. He's still a bit of a one trick, speed rusher. The Chiefs expect to have and maintain the kind of offense where they will be able to utilize that going forward.
2. Maybe there's an argument that plenty of guys who are better against the run would be a better fit. A lot of guys can pin their ears back and hammer at an O line when the Chiefs have established a two score lead, but a solid all rounder who is better in run defense helps the Chiefs get out to that lead more consistently.
3. Maybe good quarterbacks like Brady will always neutralize a pass rush like Fords, and spending the money on guys who can cover and let average guys actually get home would be a better use of resources.
I think if you could get a 2nd round pick on the tag and trade, that would be my preferred option. Tag, tag and trade, contract, let walk, nothing would really piss me off unless they signed him to a ridiculously big contract.
Food for thought though, my 4-3 mock on here I let him walk and signed Trey Flowers as DE. Ford is a way better pass rusher than Flowers but Flowers contributes way more overall to a team and probably gets paid less. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sam Hall:
Keep him unless somebody knows how to replace 15.5 sacks for less money. I sure don't. He's one of the only players who gave the defense a chance.
Yes indeed. You have to look at the bigger picture and not just one play (that didn't cost the game by itself). [Reply]
If there is going to be a work stoppage in two years, ie a major reworking of the collective bargaining agreement, then the smart move is to make short term agreements to win now, while also making moves to flush some major contracts.
This actually sets cup well for the Chiefs.
To win now the Chiefs keep guys like Houston, Ford and Berry for the near term. Basically we are bringing them both back for 2020 only, much easier to walk away from both after next season. You also tag Ford, again a one year deal is perfect, especially if teams are not going to be handing out multi year deals.
Tagging Ford and keeping Berry and Houston for 2020 not only helps the Chiefs "win now" but I think it also makes the most financial sense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chargem:
I think I am okay with whatever they do, there's a few lines of thought here:
1. He's still a bit of a one trick, speed rusher. The Chiefs expect to have and maintain the kind of offense where they will be able to utilize that going forward.
2. Maybe there's an argument that plenty of guys who are better against the run would be a better fit. A lot of guys can pin their ears back and hammer at an O line when the Chiefs have established a two score lead, but a solid all rounder who is better in run defense helps the Chiefs get out to that lead more consistently.
3. Maybe good quarterbacks like Brady will always neutralize a pass rush like Fords, and spending the money on guys who can cover and let average guys actually get home would be a better use of resources.
I think if you could get a 2nd round pick on the tag and trade, that would be my preferred option. Tag, tag and trade, contract, let walk, nothing would really piss me off unless they signed him to a ridiculously big contract.
Food for thought though, my 4-3 mock on here I let him walk and signed Trey Flowers as DE. Ford is a way better pass rusher than Flowers but Flowers contributes way more overall to a team and probably gets paid less.
I agree with all of this. I think I'd tag him and trade him. he's too one dimensional. All you have to do is run at him. I've seen him blocked by WR's for fuck's sake. Somebody'll see him as their missing piece and happily pay that and we could use another early-ish pick. For that money I think you can sign a decent 4-3 end that is not as one dimensional and switch to an even line. A 4-3 would help Hitchens at any rate and you've got a lot of money tied up there. It would be nice to try to put him in a situation to succeed.
I think a lot of his sack total being so high this year was the benefit of playing with Jones and Houston anyway. I think he's overvalued. [Reply]
All defensive personnel questions have to wait until they decide if they're keeping Bob Sutton and other defensive coaches. If you hire a new DC, and have a different scheme, you will get different outcomes.
Dee Ford *might* be able to play LEO in a 4-3, but that's very risky. Houston can probably transition to DE in a 4-3 more easily than Ford to LEO.
I totally agree that one play should not define this decision. He was off sides. It shouldn't happen. But he was still the #2 or 3 defensive playmaker this year. [Reply]
I'm going to preface this by saying that this defense was at it's best in a 4 man front with Ford and Houston on the edges and Nnadi and Jones on the inside. Ford improved 10-fold against the run this year. He made a lot of plays from the off-play side in the running game this year. He'll always be a guy that is going to get taken to the cleaners head up against the run but he holds up better than he used to.
If this team intends to go to a 4-3 base (which I prefer), then I think a tag and trade is in order. I think you can get a 2nd round pick for him at least and may possibly be able to snag a 1st.
If they stick with a 3-4 base, then I think re-signing him is the best option. [Reply]
For the rest of my life that will be the Dee Ford game. Fair or unfair, I'm not alone there. That's not a stink that will ever wash of for me or a large number of fans.
I know that's not exactly the best reason to make a personnel decision but think of how many times a player has worn the goat horns and then come back to the same team - it ain't often and the results are rarely stellar.
The guy managed to put up exactly NOTHING in 90 some defensive snaps. I truly have no idea how you do that. He contributed one thing to that entire game and it was a braindead, nonsensical penalty that cost us a ballgame.
I just don't know that I could bring him back after that. I know it's not rational but the history in these situations just isn't great. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I tag and trade him.
For the rest of my life that will be the Dee Ford game. Fair or unfair, I'm not alone there. That's not a stink that will ever wash of for me or a large number of fans.
I know that's not exactly the best reason to make a personnel decision but think of how many times a player has worn the goat horns and then come back to the same team - it ain't often and the results are rarely stellar.
The guy managed to put up exactly NOTHING in 90 some defensive snaps. I truly have no idea how you do that. He contributed one thing to that entire game and it was a braindead, nonsensical penalty that cost us a ballgame.
I just don't know that I could bring him back after that. I know it's not rational but the history in these situations just isn't great.
If you can tag and trade him, yeah, definitely do that.
My god, how fucking hard is it to not line up in the fucking neutral zone. Jesus. [Reply]
It's hard for me to trust Ford at all. Yeah he made a bunch of big plays this season but so did Houston when he had 22 sacks and that fucking bit us in the ass. I'd look to tag and trade him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
If you can tag and trade him, yeah, definitely do that.
My god, how fucking hard is it to not line up in the fucking neutral zone. Jesus.
And somehow that's still not the most inexplicable thing.
How do you play that many snaps and not at least stumble into an assist or a pressure? He literally put NO statline. That's seemingly impossible.
I just cannot wrap my mind around how poorly he played in that game and then to have your sole contribution be a completely unforced error that literally changed the franchise's history...ugh. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And somehow that's still not the most inexplicable thing.
How do you play that many snaps and not at least stumble into an assist or a pressure? He literally put NO statline. That's seemingly impossible.
I just cannot wrap my mind around how poorly he played in that game and then to have your sole contribution be a completely unforced error that literally changed the franchise's history...ugh.
Yeah, they ran 94 plays. 94 fucking plays.
You talked about it before, but Bill and Tom just pulled some wizard shit and we fucked it up. [Reply]