ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 3 of 4
< 123 4 >
Nzoner's Game Room>One guy on defense came to play on Sunday
staylor26 11:18 AM 11-24-2020
Ward quietly looked the best he has all season. Seems like he’s finally 100% or close to it.
[Reply]
staylor26 05:41 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
You guys see the clip of Jones? He took so many plays off, gave up early. Sometimes at the snap he just stood straight up and didn’t move much. Maybe that happens every game? Those big dudes on the DL can’t play every snap.
Yea, this literally happens in every game, especially when the defense has been on the field that long. CP just has it out for Chris Jones this week.
[Reply]
ghak99 06:12 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
The equivalent on offense would be Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce not showing up here or there. Sure they will have the occasional drop, interception, bad route, etc., but you never see all three disappear for an entire game or longer. Would people give them all a pass for continually not living up to their contract? Maybe, maybe not, but we don't have to worry about it because it simply doesn't happen. The players on offense bring it each week. The same apparently can't be said for the big money guys on defense.
The guy in the backfield with the famous name has made a few business decisions in the last few games. As far as I'm concerned, that's much worse than just becoming a JAG for a few quarters.
[Reply]
Pitt Gorilla 06:17 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
We miss Ogbah

When Clark and Jones got stymied last year, we could usually count on him to get a pressure or sack
This. KPass isn't getting it down opposite Clark. Danna is ok, but he's a rookie and isn't excelling at outside PR moves. Another competent end would help so much (See: Seattle)
[Reply]
dlphg9 06:34 PM 11-24-2020
Chris Jones is now tied for 2nd place in QB pressures (30) with Joey Bosa.
[Reply]
Megatron96 06:45 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Why Not?:
Sure but my point was that Ward got beat on that play
Were we really expecting Ward to be perfect?

I think we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that this defense is the 2000 Ravens defense. Or the 85 Bears or whatever. We literally have three All-Pro level players and a bunch of role players, rookies/2nd-year guys, and JAGs.

Spags basically made chicken salad out of chickenshit last season, and for most of this season, outside of three games. We still don't have a top-tier LB, or a shut-down CB, and yet our defense is somehow a top half defense and the secondary has been a top 10 unit. In spite of those obvious short-comings.

So what has Spags been doing all this time? He's been trying to take away the biggest weapons our opponents have. Sunday night it was the Raiders running game and big plays by Ruggs and Agholar. And he did. They had one big play and rushed for less than 80 yards. Mission accomplished. But he couldn't do much about Waller (though realistically, who can?).

And our pass-rush is essentially two players-Jones and Clark. We don't have another solid pass-rusher on the team, which is a big part of the reason Spags has been utilizing all those exotic blitz packages, bringing the likes of Niemann, Sorenson, Mathieu, etc. It has worked against most of the teams we've faced, but against the best OLs that have good to great QBs/receivers, it's come up short lately.

But we have to be honest about the state of things midway through the 2020 season: Okafor has been injured, and even now hasn't been playing well to this point. That could change in the coming weeks, which will make things easier for Clark and Jones, but until then opposing OCs will just double-team/chip/scheme our best pass-rushers out of the play.

But after Okafor, the well is basically dry in terms of pass-rushers. Last season we had Okafor, Ogbah, and eventually Suggs. Those guys created just enough chaos on their side to give Jones and Clark a little more freedom to work. This season that hasn't been available.

I'm not saying the defense is bad, because I think the defense has been pretty damned good all things considered. But comparing the defense to the offense, which is stacked with talent and speed plus the greatest QB of all-time, isn't really a fair comparison.

I mean just look at the difference:

On offense:

Mahomes: greatest QB ever

CEH: budding future All-Pro rookie RB
Bell: former All-Pro RB

Hill: All-Pro WR, most dangerous WR in the NFL
Watkins: Former 1st round pick, top-tier WR
Hardman: 4.3 speed.
Robinson: probably a WR2/3 for 20 teams

Kelce: best TE since TG

Fisher: 1st round pick, top 5 LT
Schwartz: best RT last season

On defense:

Clark: 11 PDs, 11 FFs, 47 sacks just in the regular season. In the playoffs, 8 sacks, 1 PD, 1 FF.

Chris Jones: 21 PD, 9 FF, 38.5 sacks.

Mathieu: 19 INTs, 2 TDs, 65 PDs, 4 FFs, 9 sacks.

Hitchens/Wilson/Pennel/Sorenson/Niemann are role players at best.

Everyone else on the defense just isn't on their level. We've got a couple possible 'diamonds in the rough,' in guys like Nnadi, Gay, Snead, Thornhill, and maybe one of two other guys, but the only guys that anyone would consider top 10-15 across the league are Clark, Jones, and Mathieu.

And they can't hide all the holes in this defense. All those other guys have to play big every week or they're just going to have problems. I mean, seriously why do you think Spags has had both Clark and Jones dropping back into coverage, putting Jones at DE, bringing Clark into the middle, having Mathieu literally play everything from slot, S, to LB for crying out loud. I'm not saying the guys don't like it, but they're putting in a ton of work moving around as much as they do, to try and keep offesnse from drawing a bead on the defense's weaknesses.

But somehow they've been consistently good or better through the last 20 games. I mean seriously, think about what they've been able to do without 1st rounders/All-Pros at LB/CB and atleast one other pass-rusher: even including the two Raiders games and the game against CAR, they're only giving up about 21 points/game. They've been able to hold up against every playoff team from last season. And a couple top 5 offenses this year. And what they did against BAL?
That was something. That was the pinnacle of what this unit can be.

And maybe in a year or two Thornhill becomes a top 15 S. Maybe Snead becomes a solid CB2. Maybe Gay delivers on his promise in a couple seasons. And I believe at least two of those things will happen.

But right now, those guys are first or second year guys that are still just trying to find their identities on the team.
[Reply]
staylor26 07:13 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
Chris Jones is now tied for 2nd place in QB pressures (30) with Joey Bosa.
“Wow imagine if he wasn’t a lazy fuck that has disappeared for several games! He could have 100 QB pressures!”
[Reply]
Deberg_1990 07:16 PM 11-24-2020
Sometimes you have to give the other team credit too. The Raiders Oline is legit and Carr played really well.

The Chiefs can’t dominate every game. No team can.
[Reply]
htismaqe 07:20 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
Sometimes you have to give the other team credit too. The Raiders Oline is legit and Carr played really well.

The Chiefs can’t dominate every game. No team can.
You'd think this was common sense by now. :-)
[Reply]
Why Not? 07:29 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Were we really expecting Ward to be perfect?

I think we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that this defense is the 2000 Ravens defense. Or the 85 Bears or whatever. We literally have three All-Pro level players and a bunch of role players, rookies/2nd-year guys, and JAGs.

Spags basically made chicken salad out of chickenshit last season, and for most of this season, outside of three games. We still don't have a top-tier LB, or a shut-down CB, and yet our defense is somehow a top half defense and the secondary has been a top 10 unit. In spite of those obvious short-comings.

So what has Spags been doing all this time? He's been trying to take away the biggest weapons our opponents have. Sunday night it was the Raiders running game and big plays by Ruggs and Agholar. And he did. They had one big play and rushed for less than 80 yards. Mission accomplished. But he couldn't do much about Waller (though realistically, who can?).

And our pass-rush is essentially two players-Jones and Clark. We don't have another solid pass-rusher on the team, which is a big part of the reason Spags has been utilizing all those exotic blitz packages, bringing the likes of Niemann, Sorenson, Mathieu, etc. It has worked against most of the teams we've faced, but against the best OLs that have good to great QBs/receivers, it's come up short lately.

But we have to be honest about the state of things midway through the 2020 season: Okafor has been injured, and even now hasn't been playing well to this point. That could change in the coming weeks, which will make things easier for Clark and Jones, but until then opposing OCs will just double-team/chip/scheme our best pass-rushers out of the play.

But after Okafor, the well is basically dry in terms of pass-rushers. Last season we had Okafor, Ogbah, and eventually Suggs. Those guys created just enough chaos on their side to give Jones and Clark a little more freedom to work. This season that hasn't been available.

I'm not saying the defense is bad, because I think the defense has been pretty damned good all things considered. But comparing the defense to the offense, which is stacked with talent and speed plus the greatest QB of all-time, isn't really a fair comparison.

I mean just look at the difference:

On offense:

Mahomes: greatest QB ever

CEH: budding future All-Pro rookie RB
Bell: former All-Pro RB

Hill: All-Pro WR, most dangerous WR in the NFL
Watkins: Former 1st round pick, top-tier WR
Hardman: 4.3 speed.
Robinson: probably a WR2/3 for 20 teams

Kelce: best TE since TG

Fisher: 1st round pick, top 5 LT
Schwartz: best RT last season

On defense:

Clark: 11 PDs, 11 FFs, 47 sacks just in the regular season. In the playoffs, 8 sacks, 1 PD, 1 FF.

Chris Jones: 21 PD, 9 FF, 38.5 sacks.

Mathieu: 19 INTs, 2 TDs, 65 PDs, 4 FFs, 9 sacks.

Hitchens/Wilson/Pennel/Sorenson/Niemann are role players at best.

Everyone else on the defense just isn't on their level. We've got a couple possible 'diamonds in the rough,' in guys like Nnadi, Gay, Snead, Thornhill, and maybe one of two other guys, but the only guys that anyone would consider top 10-15 across the league are Clark, Jones, and Mathieu.

And they can't hide all the holes in this defense. All those other guys have to play big every week or they're just going to have problems. I mean, seriously why do you think Spags has had both Clark and Jones dropping back into coverage, putting Jones at DE, bringing Clark into the middle, having Mathieu literally play everything from slot, S, to LB for crying out loud. I'm not saying the guys don't like it, but they're putting in a ton of work moving around as much as they do, to try and keep offesnse from drawing a bead on the defense's weaknesses.

But somehow they've been consistently good or better through the last 20 games. I mean seriously, think about what they've been able to do without 1st rounders/All-Pros at LB/CB and atleast one other pass-rusher: even including the two Raiders games and the game against CAR, they're only giving up about 21 points/game. They've been able to hold up against every playoff team from last season. And a couple top 5 offenses this year. And what they did against BAL?
That was something. That was the pinnacle of what this unit can be.

And maybe in a year or two Thornhill becomes a top 15 S. Maybe Snead becomes a solid CB2. Maybe Gay delivers on his promise in a couple seasons. And I believe at least two of those things will happen.

But right now, those guys are first or second year guys that are still just trying to find their identities on the team.

This is a thread on Ward and his play specifically on Sunday night. I don’t think Ward has been particularly good this season and I think he got fortunate as hell that Agholar dropped that pass on Sunday.

Not sure why you picked my particular post to launch into a diatribe on the state of the defense as a whole.
[Reply]
BigRedChief 07:29 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
He didn't get many chances, but it sure looks like Gay came to play

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/chiefs-...175049484.html
Originally Posted by tyreekthefreak:
Yeah, I'm liking Gay a lot! Fast and wraps up!
Everyone was saying it would be mid season before he could contribute, looks to be on time. He's getting more snaps and playing better.
[Reply]
R Clark 07:38 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Why Not?:
This is a thread on Ward and his play specifically on Sunday night. I don’t think Ward has been particularly good this season and I think he got fortunate as hell that Agholar dropped that pass on Sunday.

Not sure why you picked my particular post to launch into a diatribe on the state of the defense as a whole.
Hasn’t he been playing with a broken hand?
[Reply]
staylor26 07:43 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Why Not?:
This is a thread on Ward and his play specifically on Sunday night. I don’t think Ward has been particularly good this season and I think he got fortunate as hell that Agholar dropped that pass on Sunday.

Not sure why you picked my particular post to launch into a diatribe on the state of the defense as a whole.
Ward played well. Just because he got beat on one play doesn’t mean he had a bad game, and Agholor was hardly “wide open”. I don’t think you know what “wide open” means. He had a step or two on him, but that happens. Guys get beat deep all the time, and one play that still resulted in an incompletion doesn’t change the fact that he had a good game.
[Reply]
Why Not? 07:45 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by R Clark:
Hasn’t he been playing with a broken hand?
Yes he has. But the issue hasn’t been is inability to intercept passes. His coverage hasn’t been great. I don’t think the guy sucks or anything but prime Champ Bailey, he ain’t.
[Reply]
Why Not? 07:45 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Ward played well. Just because he got beat on one play doesn’t mean he had a bad game, and Agholor was hardly “wide open”. I don’t think you know what “wide open” means. He had a step or two on him, but that happens. Guys get beat deep all the time, and one play that still resulted in an incompletion doesn’t change the fact that he had a good game.
A step or two in the NFL is wide open, coach.
[Reply]
staylor26 07:47 PM 11-24-2020
Originally Posted by Why Not?:
A step or two in the NFL is wide open, coach.
:-)

Yea because it’s so easy to play corner in the NFL!
[Reply]
Page 3 of 4
< 123 4 >
Up