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Nzoner's Game Room>What's up with Mecole Hardman?
carcosa 06:00 PM 10-19-2020
Pringle was getting all the snaps down the stretch. Is he in the doghouse? (I'm only partially asking because I started him in fantasy thinking he'd get some looks with Watkins out)

Seems like he's regressed a lot this season, unfortunately...
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Red Dawg 01:16 PM 10-21-2020
Hardman is Jackson? No chance in hell.
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wazu 01:52 PM 10-21-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Would you take James Washington?
They seem to be on similar career arcs so far. My reason for comparing to Ginn was trying to guess what his overall career path looks like. Washington seems like he has the potential to be more than what he's shown. Still trying to figure out if Mecole does as well.
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Megatron96 01:53 PM 10-21-2020
Originally Posted by carcosa:
Pringle was getting all the snaps down the stretch. Is he in the doghouse? (I'm only partially asking because I started him in fantasy thinking he'd get some looks with Watkins out)

Seems like he's regressed a lot this season, unfortunately...
Pringle got more snaps at the end of the game because he's a better run-blocker than Hardman, due partly because Pringle is simply bigger and stronger, and partly because Pringle has a lot more practice run-blocking.

People need to stop trying to read a bunch of stuff into how the end of one game went.

Look, try this: go on your playstation or whatever and put Hill and Hardman (stock, no putting your 'hometeam' version of Hardman in)as WR1 and WR2 and then run the ball on every down. Do this as a coach; don't use your special little thumb moves to cheat. Do this against PIT or some team that features physical DBs. Hardman will probably get raped every time, because he simply isn't a big physical guy.

Couple that with the fact Hardman doesn't have hardly any experience run-blocking as a WR anyway.

Put the BUF game out of your minds. It was an outlier game, because it was literally raining small animals out there, it was like 40 degrees and windy. We ran the ball 50 times. That was not anything like an average Chiefs game. If Andy runs the ball 35+ times it's news.

Hardman's role is to be a deep threat, similar to Hill; they even run the same kinds of routes. The difference is that Hill has the experience and skill set to be able to run shorter routes and over the middle because he's had time to work on it, in particular the ability to beat man press, which took him some time to develop.

Hardman hasn't gotten there yet. He doesn't consistently beat man press; he gets jammed at the line a lot which means his timing is put off (among other things). Now add in just how fast Mahomes makes his reads, in fact sometimes he reads through too fast right? So Pat looks over at Hardman or where he's supposed to be, and he's either not there (at the break) or he's tightly covered because he didn't get off the line efficiently. Now, maybe in half a second hardman gets wide open, but Pat doesn't wait sometimes. So Pat just moves on to the next read. I am not blaming Patrick, stop it.

Hardman is running routes better at a fundamental level, but he still has to work on the nuances of the position, things like beating man press at the snap using a combination of his speed/quickness and learning to use his hands, like Hill has learned to do to beat DBs that try to get physical at the line. And then he needs to work on some other things. Those are things that just take time. He's not dumb; where do people get this stuff?

He's inexperienced. It's the beginning of his second year in the league. It's the start of just his fourth season as a WR at any level. In spite of all of the above, he was selected to a Pro Bowl already. He's been about as productive a rookie WR as the league saw last season.

But he's never going to be a replacement for Watkins. Get that out of your minds. Unless he gets a few inches taller, puts on 20 lbs. and someone plugs him into that Matrix machine that just gives you decades of training and experience in 10 seconds, that's not a thing. They don't play the same role on the offense.

Seriously, by the end of next season, barring injury or whatever, Hardman is going to be a very dangerous WR.

So just be patient. Hardman's going to be fine. You can't make him into a prime Desean Jackson (or whoever you want to use) in a couple seasons.
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Red Dawg 01:58 PM 10-21-2020
Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.
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htismaqe 01:59 PM 10-21-2020
Originally Posted by wazu:
They seem to be on similar career arcs so far. My reason for comparing to Ginn was trying to guess what his overall career path looks like. Washington seems like he has the potential to be more than what he's shown. Still trying to figure out if Mecole does as well.
Mecole actually has a slightly better trajectory than Washington. Washington averages about one half of a catch more per game but they both average about 33 yards per game and Mecole has more TD's despite having played 12 less games.

I think people just need to temper their expectations a bit. Look at the guys that were picked around Hardman. He's clearly superior to Arcega-Whiteside and Isabella. Parris Campbell has only played in 9 games.

The clear outliers are AJ Brown and DK Metcalf. Those guys are the best WR's on their teams pretty much by default. Neither one of them would have been that here with Tyreek and Watson here, so really there's no comparison there.
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htismaqe 02:00 PM 10-21-2020
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.
He's the #1 WR on a team with very little else at the position.

He wouldn't have those kind of stats in KC. You're comparing apples and oranges.
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Valiant 02:22 PM 10-21-2020
Seems to me he is hurt or banged up right now from the way he runs. Doesn't look like he has his normal zip.
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Megatron96 02:25 PM 10-21-2020
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
Meanwhile in Seattle DK has 5 tds and not less that 90 yards each game. Media is calling him the new Calvin Johnson. We missed. Veach is awsome but we missed.
Veach only missed if he was supposed to draft a Calvin Johnson clone, and then drafted Hardman thinking he'd grow another 5-6 inches and put on 20 lbs. before the season started. That'd be really stupid, and Veach should've gotten fired for something like that.

He wasn't looking for Megatron when he drafted Hardman. It's that simple really.
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kevrunner 10:20 PM 10-21-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
He's the #1 WR on a team with very little else at the position.

He wouldn't have those kind of stats in KC. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Pretty sure Tyler Lockett could start on the Chiefs. Metcalf, Lockett, Tyreek and Kielce, that would be awesome.
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OKchiefs 11:07 PM 10-22-2020
People can make excuses all they want. Taking Hardman just because they needed a poor man's Tyreek Hill was a panic move. They could have taken a better all around WR like Metcalf, McLaurin, or Johnson. We're most likely left with a gadget player and deep threat. Maybe he develops eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it. I believe I read somewhere that Hardman has somewhere in the range of 300 yards over his past 16 games. That is simply not good production, especially in an offense that throws as much as we do. People can keep coming up with excuses, but it's going to be pretty telling when a FA, a rookie, or Pringle gets the #2 job over Hardman.
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ThyKingdomCome15 11:11 PM 10-22-2020
He was drafted to be Tyreek but Tyreek has not missed a snap.
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Deberg_1990 10:12 AM 10-23-2020
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
People can make excuses all they want. Taking Hardman just because they needed a poor man's Tyreek Hill was a panic move. They could have taken a better all around WR like Metcalf, McLaurin, or Johnson. We're most likely left with a gadget player and deep threat. Maybe he develops eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it. I believe I read somewhere that Hardman has somewhere in the range of 300 yards over his past 16 games. That is simply not good production, especially in an offense that throws as much as we do. People can keep coming up with excuses, but it's going to be pretty telling when a FA, a rookie, or Pringle gets the #2 job over Hardman.
The Chiefs are winning and are loaded with talent right now. If he never develops beyond what he is now, then i trust the Chiefs to find someone whos better. Im just not that concerned about it right now.
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kcclone 10:19 AM 10-23-2020
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
People can make excuses all they want. Taking Hardman just because they needed a poor man's Tyreek Hill was a panic move. They could have taken a better all around WR like Metcalf, McLaurin, or Johnson. We're most likely left with a gadget player and deep threat. Maybe he develops eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it. I believe I read somewhere that Hardman has somewhere in the range of 300 yards over his past 16 games. That is simply not good production, especially in an offense that throws as much as we do. People can keep coming up with excuses, but it's going to be pretty telling when a FA, a rookie, or Pringle gets the #2 job over Hardman.

Wait, did you miss the part where we won the F’ing Super Bowl last year?
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scho63 10:29 AM 10-23-2020
Why have the Chiefs Pumped the Brakes on Mecole Hardman?

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-cit...mecole-hardman

Carcosa: a man ahead of his time. :-)
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htismaqe 10:57 AM 10-23-2020
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
The Chiefs are winning and are loaded with talent right now. If he never develops beyond what he is now, then i trust the Chiefs to find someone whos better. Im just not that concerned about it right now.
Originally Posted by kcclone:
Wait, did you miss the part where we won the F’ing Super Bowl last year?
QFT.

It's like 2015 all over again.
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