About to hit the 5000 post mark on the old thread, the first season 7 trailer today seems like the right time to start the final Game of Thones thread.
I'm going back to the original rules pre-2015. I don't think we need supervision or bannings. Just don't be a dick. Post anything you find online that hasn't aired yet inside of spoiler tags. That's pretty much it. I think we can all handle that...
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
In Episode 2, it was established that the NK would never get close to WF if the Dragons are stationed there. The NK, if he wanted to, could outlast everyone in Winterfell with that plan. He could sit back, light up a few smokes, and come in when everything was turned to Ash - which made the priority exposing the NK as soon as possible.
They actually did expose him, Jon and Dany unseated him from his Dragon and knocked him to the ground. Dany even spitroasted him and Jon tried to 1v1 him, it didn't work, the NK was immune to dragonfire (no one knew that coming in), and he didn't allow Jon to fight him, he was never going to risk himself to that - he only acted when he felt invulnerable.
I think where I struggle with all the criticism is that even with a team of Miltiades, George Washington, and Robb Stark (a great battle commander), there would have never been any way to "win" this fight. The NK could have starved out Winterfell for days/weeks/years if he wanted, he was only going to show up when he thought all was won and when he was in control. To purposefully expose themselves to the NK was always going to be their best chance to win.
It's a fair point. Meh, maybe.
FYI George Washington wasn't a great strategist or tactician. He was a great LEADER, and had many other awesome qualities, but battlefield strategist -- not so great -- though he improved over time. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
That would certainly be better than what they did with them, which was absurd.
Of course, if you have enough troops, you encircle the defenders (here Winterfell) and have separate troops to keep the mobile army away from your besiegers.
There were ALOT of Dothraki, but my sense is that the army of the dead vastly outnumbered them. VASTLY. And if that's the case, you aren't enveloping much of anything unless ALL the dead just pile up 20 deep or whatever against the castle walls. The individual wights were stupid, but they were clearly controlled, on an individual level at need, by the NK. They therefore aren't going to do that.
But still, hit and run, flanking -- ANYTHING -- is better than what they actually did.
And the Dothraki damn well should've known that.
Part of what the Dothraki does is explained by Jorah in book 1 ->
Originally Posted by :
"[The Dothraki] are better riders than any knight, utterly fearless and their bows outrange ours. [...] The Dothraki fire from horseback, charging or retreating it makes no matter, they are full as deadline.
Part of the Dothraki strategy has always been to engage, retreat, encircle, and adapt as needed. The plan was to stall, and the hope was that the Dothraki could encircle, retreat, and stall as necessary. They had never fought an army like the army of the dead. No one was, no one had ever engaged them in a battle before.
To try to envelop them would have been fruitless. They weren't going to be hit with the element of surprise, everything in the undead's path is just simply meat - and to stand around and hide would have caused them to get enveloped in the storm, or to be sitting ducks for the NK dragon.
Anyway. I know I've been defending the show a lot, so I'll stop here. I just believe that most all standard military tactics should (and did) go out the window when you have an undead army as a foe.
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
It's a fair point. Meh, maybe.
FYI George Washington wasn't a great strategist or tactician. He was a great LEADER, and had many other awesome qualities, but battlefield strategist -- not so great -- though he improved over time.
Totally fair about George, I threw him in because he was steadfast in simply "stalling out" the English. He knew if he could outlast his foe, they would eventually move on. Even George "Captain Stall" Washington would have looked at this situation and thrown it out the window. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
The Dothraki's whole experience in battle is overwhelming the enemy and riding right at them. You would expect them to be different in this battle? That's like watching the Unsullied and then wondering why they didn't split up and fight one on one with the undead army.
I equate the Dothraki to the Mongolian hordes, and they sure as hell were anything but stupid. Hit and run raids, feints, pretending to flee in terror to superior numbers -- they were masters of how to use their superior mobility and recurved bow to win in open battlefield settings.
My point is more that I can't believe they thought they could just swamp the army of the dead. Not if they scouted the freaking dead even a little bit and saw their numbers. Maybe they had no idea of their numbers. I guess that's possible. [Reply]
The wights aren't that smart. It seems all they can do is attack and stand still. Let them come and attack Winterfell and use that to pull off a Cannae. The actual battle of Cannae took about an hour. The slaughter of the Roman army took about 7. You can even use Bran as your Hannibal to get the army of the dead to commit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by keg in kc:
If I want not-really historically-accurate medieval battles I'll turn on Knightfall or Vikings or some other History shit. This is fucking Game of Thrones. Who gives a shit about the height of Winterfell's fucking walls or how General Dipshit, online tactical genious, would have placed the troops. Give me fire and blood and crazy stunts and heroic last stands and long stretches of terror and end it all with the winners in tears and I'm good.
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
It's not like there is a history of planning to fight an army of the dead.
The NK could have just sat back and starved them out as well.
That’s why Jon wanted to attack, it was mentioned once or twice in the second/third episode that Winterfell is running very low on supplies/food.
Bran pleaded urgency in the battle plans meeting as well.
The Dothraki were sacrificed because someone needed to kick things off to and get the NK pissed off. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
My guess is that GRRM basically just gave them key plot points for the end, and they've filled in the rest. Something like:
R+L=J
Big battle at Winterfell against the NK
Jon ends up on the Iron Throne
There isn't even a Night King in the books. The Night's King has been dead for hundreds of years. Unless I'm mistaken, GRRM made it clear that they are not the same. [Reply]
So is it pretty obvious by the way the pieces fit together that Arya kills cersei (green eyes), the mountain kills Arya before she can escape, and the hound will avenge aryas death by killing the mountain? [Reply]
