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Nzoner's Game Room>The Myth that Nelson Sucks
staylor26 04:56 PM 10-22-2018
Simply put, it’s wrong.

Originally Posted by :
BJ Kissel
BJ Kissel
@ChiefsReporter
·
33m
#Chiefs CB Steven Nelson (92.7 PFF Overall Grade) was
@PFF
's top-graded player last night. He was targeted six times and only allowed two receptions for 33 yards.

Over the past six games, Nelson has only allowed 264 yards while being targeted 42 times.

He’s having a pretty good season, and at least half of CP thinks he sucks. It’s a shame.
[Reply]
JakeF 11:03 PM 11-14-2018
Quarterbacks haven't been able to pick on him much lately. They were abusing him early on in the season.
[Reply]
NJChiefsFan 07:23 AM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Man, it’s really hard not to feel that way.

The Pats and Cardinals game are perfect examples. Opposing team could do no wrong while we get called for ticky tack BS.
We have had our string of breaks from the refs as well. It's just easy as fans to forget those and mentally hold on to the calls against us.
[Reply]
staylor26 07:34 AM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan:
We have had our string of breaks from the refs as well. It's just easy as fans to forget those and mentally hold on to the calls against us.
I’m not pretending or forgetting that we’ve had our share of breaks also.

I just don’t see how anybody can feel that it’s anywhere close to a 50/50 deal. We definitely get ****ed more than we get breaks, especially when you’re talking egregious BS. Anybody that disagrees is trying way too hard not to be “that guy” that cries about the refs. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy, but it is what it is.
[Reply]
ChiTown 07:42 AM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I’m not pretending or forgetting that we’ve had our share of breaks also.

I just don’t see how anybody can feel that it’s anywhere close to a 50/50 deal. We definitely get ****ed more than we get breaks, especially when you’re talking egregious BS. Anybody that disagrees is trying way too hard not to be “that guy” that cries about the refs. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy, but it is what it is.
Every fan thinks their team gets fucked more than other teams. My guess is we don’t, unless you or anyone else can provide some sort of proof to the contrary.

Whatever the case, I’ve been pleased with Nelson’s progress and play, especially when you consider the other “talent” around him.
[Reply]
Pasta Little Brioni 11:37 AM 11-15-2018
Yeah the Patriots being flagged for nothing against our elite skill players ad pass rush SURE is balanced officiating
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DJ's left nut 01:39 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball:
Yeah the Patriots being flagged for nothing against our elite skill players ad pass rush SURE is balanced officiating
We have a RB literally tackled in the open field when it appeared a ball could be being thrown to him and no flag came out. Guys were hanging off Kelce on a key play inside the 10 and again - nothing. There were just obviously game-changing non-calls that weren't even close judgment scenarios - they were obvious fouls right in the middle of the field and right in front of officials.

That Patriots game was one of the most unbelievably biased games I have ever seen; we got absolutely cornholed.

And what did we hear afterwards? How the Patriots discipline won them the game. Hell no it didn't - they were no more 'disciplined' than we were, they just got away with friggen murder.
[Reply]
staylor26 01:43 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
We have a RB literally tackled in the open field when it appeared a ball could be being thrown to him and no flag came out. Guys were hanging off Kelce on a key play inside the 10 and again - nothing. There were just obviously game-changing non-calls that weren't even close judgment scenarios - they were obvious fouls right in the middle of the field and right in front of officials.

That Patriots game was one of the most unbelievably biased games I have ever seen; we got absolutely cornholed.

And what did we hear afterwards? How the Patriots discipline won them the game. Hell no it didn't - they were no more 'disciplined' than we were, they just got away with friggen murder.
The worst for me was when they finally called one then threw that BS flag on Fuller on the other side of the field to offset the OPI on Edelman. It was clearly not a hold and had no effect on the play whatsoever.

No proof though, right? :-)
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Direckshun 01:46 PM 11-15-2018
So here's a theory.

Steven Nelson is about to hit free agency in 2019. Chiefs are on the phone, and they're offering 3 years at 8m/year or whatever. Nelson's agent tells him a couple teams will offer him 11m/year.

Nelson is a supremely confident guy but he can't ignore the Marcus Peters situation, can he? Peters' lack of system fit and worse coaching than what he had in Kansas City has probably now cost him tens of millions of dollars on his next contract.

Any chance Nelson looks at that and thinks to himself he could make more money long term by staying a Chief?

Sure he loses about $9m total, comparing a 3 year/$8m per year deal to a 3 year/$11m per year deal another team might offer him.

But!

He'd almost certainly have a shot at a real money contract in 2022, whereas if his play fell off on another team with worse coaching, his big money contract days may be over.

Anybody else think that's a real possibility? I need BossChief in here; this feels like a very BossChief theory.
[Reply]
staylor26 01:47 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
So here's a theory.

Steven Nelson is about to hit free agency in 2019. Chiefs are on the phone, and they're offering 3 years at 8m/year or whatever. Nelson's agent tells him a couple teams will offer him 11m/year.

Nelson is a supremely confident guy but he can't ignore the Marcus Peters situation, can he? Peters' lack of system fit and worse coaching than what he had in Kansas City has probably now cost him tens of millions of dollars on his next contract.

Any chance Nelson looks at that and thinks to himself he could make more money long term by staying a Chief?

Sure he loses about $9m total, comparing a 3 year/$8m per year deal to a 3 year/$11m per year deal another team might offer him.

But!

He'd almost certainly have a shot at a real money contract in 2022, whereas if his play fell off on another team with worse coaching, his big money contract days may be over.

Anybody else think that's a real possibility? I need BossChief in here; this feels like a very BossChief theory.
Form what I’ve seen on his social media, Nelson is going for the bag this year. I don’t think that will factor in at all.
[Reply]
Direckshun 11-15-2018, 01:48 PM
This message has been deleted by Direckshun.
Direckshun 01:53 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by Buckweath:
#11 CB as per PFF.

But don't say that. Fans want to keep saying Dorsey was so poor at drafting and as a GM.

He is not the reason why the offense is historically good but he is the reason why this defense is supposedly terrible. Ok.

And what about that guy earlier in the thread who was saying Nelson has been bad. Ok sure lol.
Dorsey's drafts were go good they are disgusting.

2013

Eric Fisher :-)
Travis Kelce :-)
Knile Davis
Nico Johnson

Sanders Commings (not a bust, just couldn't stay healthy)
Braden Wilson
Mike Catapano

2014

Dee Ford :-)
Phillip Gaines
De'Anthony Thomas :-)
Aaron Murray
Zach Fulton :-)
Laurent Duvernay-Tardif :-)

2015

Marcus Peters :-)
Mitch Morse :-)
Chris Conley
Steven Nelson
Ramik Wilson
DJ Alexander
James O'Shaughnessy
Rakeem Nunez-Rochez :-)
Da'Ron Brown

2016

Chris Jones :-)
KeiVarae Russell
Parker Ehinger

Eric Murray
Demarcus Robinson :-)
Kevin Hogan
Tyreek Hill :-)
DJ White
Dadi Nicholas

2017

Patrick Mahomes :-)
Tanoh Kpassagnon
Kareem Hunt :-)
Jehu Chesson
Ukeme Eligwe
Leon McQuay

You can debate a player here or there but that is fucking disgustingly awesome.

When we fired him, I figured the odds of me seeing a Kansas City Super Bowl ever again were dashed.

But he did give us Mahomes.
[Reply]
RunKC 01:55 PM 11-15-2018
Do not pay this guy. He is simply not worth it.

He’s had one good year of production that would warrant a 2nd contract, and that’s with him benefiting from the best pass rush in the league. Is there really any disparity between him and Scandrick, who is making pennies?

Draft a corner early and keep Scandrick. Seriously this system helps corners.
[Reply]
Direckshun 01:58 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Do not pay LDT. He is simply not worth it.

He’s had one good year of production that would warrant a 2nd contract, and that’s with him benefiting from playing next to Mitchell Schwartz. Is there really any disparity between him and Zach Fulton, who is making pennies?
You in 2017, probably.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:35 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
So here's a theory.

Steven Nelson is about to hit free agency in 2019. Chiefs are on the phone, and they're offering 3 years at 8m/year or whatever. Nelson's agent tells him a couple teams will offer him 11m/year.

Nelson is a supremely confident guy but he can't ignore the Marcus Peters situation, can he? Peters' lack of system fit and worse coaching than what he had in Kansas City has probably now cost him tens of millions of dollars on his next contract.

Any chance Nelson looks at that and thinks to himself he could make more money long term by staying a Chief?

Sure he loses about $9m total, comparing a 3 year/$8m per year deal to a 3 year/$11m per year deal another team might offer him.

But!

He'd almost certainly have a shot at a real money contract in 2022, whereas if his play fell off on another team with worse coaching, his big money contract days may be over.

Anybody else think that's a real possibility? I need BossChief in here; this feels like a very BossChief theory.
Anyone in the NFL who's willing to take less money on his 2nd deal (a 3 yr deal no less) to try to make money in his 3rd deal (at 29 yrs old) is an idiot. I mean a truly unmitigated idiot.

There is no way in hell I would ever recommend that to an NFL player if I were his agent, especially a 'skill' player. You're literally 1 step away from never being relevant again.

On that 2nd deal, you get every thin red guaranteed dime you can and you worry about 3 years from now in 3 years because the odds overwhelmingly suggest that you're going to be of little use to anyone by then anyway.
[Reply]
The Franchise 02:40 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Anyone in the NFL who's willing to take less money on his 2nd deal (a 3 yr deal no less) to try to make money in his 3rd deal (at 29 yrs old) is an idiot. I mean a truly unmitigated idiot.

There is no way in hell I would ever recommend that to an NFL player if I were his agent, especially a 'skill' player. You're literally 1 step away from never being relevant again.

On that 2nd deal, you get every thin red guaranteed dime you can and you worry about 3 years from now in 3 years because the odds overwhelmingly suggest that you're going to be of little use to anyone by then anyway.
This.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:42 PM 11-15-2018
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Do not pay this guy. He is simply not worth it.

He’s had one good year of production that would warrant a 2nd contract, and that’s with him benefiting from the best pass rush in the league. Is there really any disparity between him and Scandrick, who is making pennies?

Draft a corner early and keep Scandrick. Seriously this system helps corners.
The idea of the top CB following the top WR sounds great in theory, but I was thinking about how many quick routes and option routes teams are running these days and I think there's a HUGE benefit to staying at home.

Think about it - most NFL offenses are righthanded and thats the way the progressions read because that's just how quarterbacks drop back. So as a general rule (not a constant, but a general rule), your quicker developing routes and especially route combos are to the right side of the offense.

So if you're a CB that just stays on that side, you see a handful of route combos more frequently over on the right side. If you're a guy on the other side, you'll see a handful of route combinations a little more frequently on that side.

Playing defensive back in this era where you can't blast guys and contact is a problem, an era with fast developing routes and lots of space, requires an exceptional ability to recognize, diagnose and react. That HAS to be improved with familiarity.

So if you're a CB that plays exclusively on the right side of the offense, you're going to see those little keys that give away something like a flat/slant combo. If you're on the left side of the offense, you're going to be a little better at diagnosing those smash concepts.

It's not going to hit 100% of the time by any means, but even a 10% more likely occurrence is going to pay dividends over the course of a long season.

Granted, I've become a 'shutdown corners are overvalued and overpriced' guy so of course I believe this - it matches my particular outlook. But I also think it's just more evidence of said outlook. Give me 2 solid corners that I can leave where they are to gain familiarity with those more frequently used concepts and I'm going to be better off than the defense that has a 'lockdown' CB chasing a dude across the field, IMO.

Sutton's approach here is either stubborn and the league simply came to him, or it's been extremely smart all along...
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