Originally Posted by dirk digler:
No argument from me. Lebron wasn't surrounded with very good players and I don't know if he demanded that or not with the Cavs.
The Cavs should have made the trade to get Amare instead of Jamison and Lebron probably would have stayed
They should have done something more than a broken-down Jamison and Shaq.
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP:
Jordan already had one of the top 50 players of all fucking time on his team. :-)
Pippen wouldn't have been a top 50 player without Jordan. There were many players playing at that time that were superior to Pippen. You can't say the same about Wade today.
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
No argument from me. Lebron wasn't surrounded with very good players and I don't know if he demanded that or not with the Cavs.
The Cavs should have made the trade to get Amare instead of Jamison and Lebron probably would have stayed
LeBron had a choice, just like Howard has a choice in Orlando. Because he refused to commit to his team, no free agent wanted to join LeBron, only to have LeBron leave in a season. And it was clear that for 2-3 years before LeBron left, the Cavs were purposely trying to clear up cap space so they can give LeBron a monster contract. So instead, they tried to appease LeBron by bringing in second-rate veterans. I don't blame LeBron for that. But to be clear, if LeBron committed to Cleveland well before he left, Cleveland wouldn't have made those kind of short-term band-aid moves like Jameson and Shaq.
And you're leaving out that the Cavs weren't an offensive powerhouse, but for many years under Mike Brown, they were an ELITE defensive team. Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, and LeBron... those guys were widely regarded as the best defenders in the game. Kobe, in fact, once said Snow was the toughest defender he ever faced at the time. That along with tough, big defenders in Varejao and Z... that defense was crazy good. It's not a sexy way to run a team. But it was a much better supporting cast than is credited.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
LeBron had a choice, just like Howard has a choice in Orlando. Because he refused to commit to his team, no free agent wanted to join LeBron, only to have LeBron leave in a season. And it was clear that for 2-3 years before LeBron left, the Cavs were purposely trying to clear up cap space so they can give LeBron a monster contract. So instead, they tried to appease LeBron by bringing in second-rate veterans. I don't blame LeBron for that. But to be clear, if LeBron committed to Cleveland well before he left, Cleveland wouldn't have made those kind of short-term band-aid moves like Jameson and Shaq.
And you're leaving out that the Cavs weren't an offensive powerhouse, but for many years under Mike Brown, they were an ELITE defensive team. Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, and LeBron... those guys were widely regarded as the best defenders in the game. Kobe, in fact, once said Snow was the toughest defender he ever faced at the time. That along with tough, big defenders in Varejao and Z... that defense was crazy good. It's not a sexy way to run a team. But it was a much better supporting cast than is credited.
You make a good point about making a commitment but I really don't blame Lebron or Dwight for not doing that. That is not their job that's the GM's job. As far as the cap goes I believe that had no effect since they could have payed Lebron the max contract since he would be considered underneath the Bird exception
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
You make a good point about making a commitment but I really don't blame Lebron or Dwight for not doing that. That is not their job that's the GM's job. As far as the cap goes I believe that had no effect since they could have payed Lebron the max contract since he would be considered underneath the Bird exception
No, I don't blame him for that--but it doesn't change that a non-commitment did limit the moves they could make his last 2 seasons with the club. But LeBron really, really dicked over Cleveland in a big way by waiting until the last day for a decision he made when the offseason started. For a team that bent over backwards for him, the least LeBron should have done was tell Cleveland immediately that offseason that he was going to Miami. That fucked Cleveland over big time when they were hiring a coach and because they didn't want to spend LeBron money on a potential replacement free agent. Basically, they had millions upon millions of dollars of free money to spend when LeBron didn't commit, but because free agency was essentially over, the Cavs didn't have any players to spend on.
Originally Posted by okcchief:
Pippen wouldn't have been a top 50 player without Jordan. There were many players playing at that time that were superior to Pippen. You can't say the same about Wade today.
Yes he would of. He is one of the greatest defensive players of all time, and finished 3rd in MVP voting when Jordan retired the first time
