Originally Posted by okcchief:
7 games is fair, but I really thought they were gonna make it sting.
In the offseason, they have to revisit the penalty system.
It sets a scary precedent if a player has the opportunity to cheap shot an opponent's player to the bench for extended time, especially in the playoffs.
There should be zero tolerance for this shit. It's not so much about roughing another player up, it's that you're opening a dangerous precedent that a team can set bounties on the best player, knock that guy out of the game, and then get a significant competitive edge.
As I've said before with Bountygate... Tons of cheap shots on Favre in the Minnesota game. Favre didn't play the last series because of a cheap shot. What if one of the cheap shots put Favre into a concussion and knocked him out of the game?
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Players don't flail their elbows because they want to hurt somebody or because they want to elbow somebody in the head.
And why are we assuming that Ron wanted to hurt Harden or even that he wanted to elbow Harden in the head? I don't look at that play and think either of those things. I see a player that was out of control, not somebody intentionally and maliciously attempting to hurt someone (as Kevin Love did).
Originally Posted by :
They do it because they want to clear out and get a little frustrated. Clearing out is a basketball move.
Elbowing somebody in the head in a clear out attempt is a foul, no?
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
This was not a basketball play. I figured you might understand that significant of a difference. This would be akin to him punching someone in the head, only the elbow arguably delivered a harder blow.
This is nothing like a deliberate and malicious punch to the head. If he had done that, he would have been gone a lot longer than this (and I would have been fine with it). But that isn't what happened here at all.
Originally Posted by okcchief:
He's usually a little more clever with his cheap shots. The guy has been and always will be a dirty player.
If Stern believed this was an intentional cheap shot and attempt to injure on Artest's part rather than a situation where a guy lost control of himself for an instant, there's little doubt he would be gone longer than 7. He'd probably be gone for a 1/4 of a season. But it wasn't either of those things.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
And why are we assuming that Ron wanted to hurt Harden or even that he wanted to elbow Harden in the head? I don't look at that play and think either of those things. I see a player that was out of control, not somebody intentionally and maliciously attempting to hurt someone (as Kevin Love did).
Elbowing somebody in the head in a clear out attempt is a foul, no?
He clearly feels someone there and puts his elbow above his head and swings as hard as he can. He may have known it was Harden but he knew it was somebody. Then he doesn't look back after he nails him? You can't feel that? Then he wants to start a fight instead of diffusing the situation.
I know you like the guy and I know you like to pick a side and fight to the death with it. It's your gimmick to fight the unpopular fight. I get that.
There is no way anyone can seriously defend what Artest did or say the punishment isn't fair.
Originally Posted by okcchief:
He clearly feels someone there and puts his elbow above his head and swings as hard as he can. He may have known it was Harden but he knew it was somebody. They he doesn't look back after he nails him? You can't feel that? Then he wants to start a fight instead of diffusing the situation.
I know you like the guy and I know you like to pick a side and fight to the death with it. It's your gimmick to fight the unpopular fight. I get that.
There is no way anyone can seriously defend what Artest did or say the punishment isn't fair.
7 games is a slap on the wrist. Fuck the nba turning into YMCA pickup games. Stern is a dumb fucker
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
If Stern believed this was an intentional cheap shot and attempt to injure on Artest's part rather than a situation where a guy lost control of himself for an instant, there's little doubt he would be gone longer than 7. He'd probably be gone for a 1/4 of a season. But it wasn't either of those things.
It was malicious and it should have been for the playoffs. The penalty was light if anything.
Originally Posted by okcchief:
He clearly feels someone there and puts his elbow above his head and swings as hard as he can. He may have known it was Harden but he knew it was somebody. They he doesn't look back after he nails him? You can't feel that? Then he wants to start a fight instead of diffusing the situation.
Been over this. It's easy to get caught up in the emotion of the crowd after something like that. There were thousands of people egging him on.
Heck, I remember when Matt Bonner took out Kevin Garnett with a hard foul years ago (a foul that wasn't dirty at all, but KG didn't like it). He got so caught up in the moment that he started running around high-fiving Raptors fans after it. And this is Matt Bonner we're talking about. That's the kind of impact a crowd like that can have on you, you can lose whatever good sense you have (and in Artest's case, he really doesn't have much to begin with).
Originally Posted by :
There is no way anyone can seriously defend what Artest did or say the punishment isn't fair.
Fairness is subjective. Based on past precedents where players have done similar things or worse (Kobe, KLove), though, it is considerably more than it should be.
Originally Posted by okcchief:
It's better than 2, but I agree with you.
KC Connection thinks he should just miss the last meaningless regular season game and get a statue next to Magic.
As I said from the beginning, a few games (meaning 2-3) would have sufficed. He did lose control of himself in the wrong way and he can't do that. But more than that really isn't justifiable based on past league decisions in this area.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Been over this. It's easy to get caught up in the emotion of the crowd after something like that. There were thousands of people egging him on.
Heck, I remember when Matt Bonner took out Kevin Garnett with a hard foul years ago (a foul that wasn't dirty at all, but KG didn't like it). He got so caught up in the moment that he started running around high-fiving Raptors fans after it. And this is Matt Bonner we're talking about. That's the kind of impact a crowd like that can have on you, you can lose whatever good sense you have (and in Artest's case, he really doesn't have much to begin with).
Fairness is subjective. Based on past precedents where players have done similar things or worse (Kobe, KLove), though, it is considerably more than it should be.
Have Kobe or Love been suspended as many times as Artest? We are talking over 100 games to probably 10 between to 2 of them? Yeah, they should be treated the same.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
In the offseason, they have to revisit the penalty system.
It sets a scary precedent if a player has the opportunity to cheap shot an opponent's player to the bench for extended time, especially in the playoffs.
There should be zero tolerance for this shit. It's not so much about roughing another player up, it's that you're opening a dangerous precedent that a team can set bounties on the best player, knock that guy out of the game, and then get a significant competitive edge.
As I've said before with Bountygate... Tons of cheap shots on Favre in the Minnesota game. Favre didn't play the last series because of a cheap shot. What if one of the cheap shots put Favre into a concussion and knocked him out of the game?
Stuff like this happens in every contact sport, BTW. It wasn't something unique to the Saints, nor is it something that will be ending any time soon.