The defense sucked last year- we have dumped our 3 best players and replaced them with guys with an injury history- not expecting huge improvement is not being a hypocrite, it is being realistic until we see how they come together in camp.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
You're basing that off 1 year during Bountygate which is a bad comparison. He had good DEs in St. Louis where he was there for 3 years. He had a good secondary during the super bowl run and an outstanding one in 2016.
You can count his time as a head coach where he wasn’t the DC but I don’t see that as a good example to use as a comparison as much as you don’t like using the Saints bountygate year, why focus on when he’s the HC instead of his same current position as a DC?
We saw a big improvement in his secondary from 2015 to 2016 with the same roster outside of Jenkins in NY. What also changed in that time? They traded for Vernon, who was an all pro player in 2016 and had JPP available for several more games with a far higher output of pass rushing production.
The SB year, the strength was mainly in the DL, not the DB core. Do you disagree with that? [Reply]
The defense sucked last year- we have dumped our 3 best players and replaced them with guys with an injury history- not expecting huge improvement is not being a hypocrite, it is being realistic until we see how they come together in camp.
I'm talking about Ford because everybody else in the thread is talking about Ford. It isn't rocket science.
And you've gone way beyond not expecting huge improvement. You've posted negative crap about the defense in every thread you're in, all day. That is what makes you a hypocrite.
Now you're freaking crying about me crying about Ford. That not only makes you a hypocrite, it makes you ridiculous.
Give it up. I'll stop talking about Ford when the conversation is over. That's not up to me, that's up to everyone else here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
You can count his time as a head coach where he wasn’t the DC but I don’t see that as a good example to use as a comparison as much as you don’t like using the Saints bountygate year, why focus on when he’s the HC instead of his same current position as a DC?
We saw a big improvement in his secondary from 2015 to 2016 with the same roster outside of Jenkins in NY. What also changed in that time? They traded for Vernon, who was an all pro player in 2016 and had JPP available for several more games with a far higher output of pass rushing production.
The SB year, the strength was mainly in the DL, not the DB core. Do you disagree with that?
Well, I'm not using that as a case that DBs or DEs are better or worse. But the Bountygate example is definitely not a good frame of reference. The Giants in 2016 added both Eli Apple and Janoris Jenkins. There's no doubt they were bigger difference makers than Vernon. Yes, Spags had better DEs than secondary the first time in NYG, but his secondary was better than the DEs the second time around. More importantly, he drafted 7 DBs in 5 seasons with NYG... so regardless of whether he's right or not, he seems to think the team needs to be built around DBs first which is exactly what he seems to be doing here. [Reply]
Naptown Chief 03-15-2019, 12:24 AM
This message has been deleted by Naptown Chief.
Reason: NVM, I clearly cannot read
Probably already been said, but Veach has said numerous times that the strength of the draft is defensive line, so maybe the "secondary first" look right now is because they aren't confident in premium secondary talent getting to them in the draft.
I like this Okafor signing. He doesn't seem flashy but they only had two DEs on the roster, they needed to at least sign one and I'd rather a solid vet guy for a reasonable price than a $20m per year gamble.
I also think sometimes you can't win, the run defense was bitched about all season and this kind of move seems like it might solidify the run stopping gets bitched about because of the loss of sack potential.
I do still sort of hope they take a DE in the first who has more sack potential, but this is a good move I think. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chargem:
Probably already been said, but Veach has said numerous times that the strength of the draft is defensive line, so maybe the "secondary first" look right now is because they aren't confident in premium secondary talent getting to them in the draft.
I like this Okafor signing. He doesn't seem flashy but they only had two DEs on the roster, they needed to at least sign one and I'd rather a solid vet guy for a reasonable price than a $20m per year gamble.
I also think sometimes you can't win, the run defense was bitched about all season and this kind of move seems like it might solidify the run stopping gets bitched about because of the loss of sack potential.
I do still sort of hope they take a DE in the first who has more sack potential, but this is a good move I think.
The draft is strong in pass rushers too, which is probably why Veach felt it was ok to let so many sacks walk away. I imagine we will see an offensive lineman at some point but our draft but is going to be almost all defense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE!:
Nnadi and Jones is very solid. Speaks who knows. I feel like he will be better as a DE. Okafor is basically Allen Bailey but better run stuffer. We got better in the back end. Mathieu signing and potentially Darcy. Ward will ball out next year. I hope Watts can ball out as well. Our Linebackers May be the worst in the league. Hitchens I hope can play like he did in Dallas. Ragland shouldn’t see the field and the parking lot shooter guy sounds like a rotational piece.
Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
And i've already explained how talented Spags DEs have been in years he's been successful and how theres a lack of talent at DE in the years he's struggled.
Our defense was terrible because we had a terrible DC, However even the greatest DC is going to struggle with a defense that has been gutted of its talent. If Dee Ford is a complete failure in SF and Okafor, Speaks, Tanoh and whoever we draft create a ton of sacks and pressure ill gladly eat crow, however it doesn't appear that it is going to go that way at all.
Yeah, this seems to be overlooked on this forum. His DE's in 07 were Strahan and Osi, both of whom had 13 sacks that year. The reason they were able to beat the Patriot's was because of their ability to pressure Brady with just their front four. But now we're being told we're just gonna blitz him alot... like that has ever ****ing worked against elite qb's... [Reply]
I think we all understand that the front 4 have to be on-point. I think we also understand that this is going to take some development and drafting as well.
I'm not gonna' freak out on ANY of this shit until we complete this FA and draft, and get our asses to camp. It's WAY too early to be calling things a success or a bust at this point.
At the end of the day, we blew up the #31 defense in the league and hired a coaching trifecta that the majority of teams in this league would LOVE to have. I'm not worried one bit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by loochy:
Dude, there's still a lot of cap $ and draft picks left. Why do some of you pretend like this is the final lineup?
So, we can't give our opinions of the moves made so far?
You gonna pretend as if its easy to replace the production we've let go at a premium position, AND address the deficiencies elsewhere?
It's easy to say we can draft or sign free agent to address holes, it's another thing to actually do it. Hitchens was supposed to be an upgrade last season, how did that turn out? [Reply]
