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Nzoner's Game Room>Some people on this forum need to be nicer to Dave Toub
RealSNR 04:49 PM 10-20-2019
They seem to be under the impression that our special teams unit sucks or just hasn't been good enough for awhile now. A few of the dumber fans have even suggested that Toub needs to go. Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

This is another example of people not seeing the forest for the fucking trees when it comes to this team during the Andy Reid era. They get so obsessed over the illegal block in the back penalties and how he coaches his returners to attempt to make a play whenever possible. Seriously? THOSE TWO things are your main criteria for determining whether we have a good special teams coordinator or not?!

Is there nothing to be said for him having 3 different place kickers since 2013, and how none of them have ever shit the bed and turned into Mason Crosbys, Blair Walshes, or Cody Parkeys?

Or how about the BIGGEST part of special teams: Returns. Did you know the Chiefs have never allowed a special teams return TD of ANY TYPE during Toub's tenure? Meanwhile, they themselves have scored 11 kickoff/punt return TDs? "Oh but it's all Tyreek," you might say. Nope. Tyreek only accounts for 5 of those 11 return TDs.

So here are some stats. You can look up any year you want at both of the links

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/...eturn/dir/desc

Here are the Chiefs in the return game

2013: 2 kr TDs (Quinton Demps, Knile Davis) 2 pr TDs (Dexter McCluster)
Rankings: 1st in kick return average, 6th in punt return average

2014: 1 kr TD (Knile Davis) 1 pr TD (DeAnthony Thomas)
Rankings: 2nd in kick return average, 4th in punt return average

2015: [none]
Rankings: 21st in kick return average, 18th in punt return average

2016: 1 kr TD (Tyreek Hill) 2 pr TD (Tyreek Hill)
Rankings: 9th in kick return average, 1st in punt return average

2017: 1 pr TD (Tyreek Hill)
Rankings: 9th in kick return average, 25th in punt return average

2018: 1 pr TD (Tyreek Hill)
Rankings: 8th in kick return average, 3rd in punt return average

Apart from 2015 and an anomalous 2017 in punt returns, the Chiefs have always been top 10 in average return yards per punt and kickoff.

I've been trying to find statistics for team kick and punt coverage and I can't quite find any. Here's this shit from Football Outsiders, though. No clue if this is a good metric to use or not, but here are their total special teams rankings:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2018

2013: 1st
2014: 3rd
2015: 9th
2016: 1st
2017: 4th
2018: 2nd

Anybody still want to claim that Toub sucks?
[Reply]
Mama Hip Rockets 06:14 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
And again, I have this to say:

No one cares that there has been a penalty on damn near every kick return this year? Or that Thomas is making terrible decisions on a regular basis and averaging 4 yards per punt return?
[Reply]
InChiefsHeaven 06:19 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by Mama Hip Rockets:
No one cares that there has been a penalty on damn near every kick return this year? Or that Thomas is making terrible decisions on a regular basis and averaging 4 yards per punt return?
To be fair, it seems all teams have this problem, not just the Chiefs. Football is hard to watch with all the damn laundry that flies on KR and PR.
[Reply]
el borracho 06:21 PM 10-20-2019
Returns are part of the equation, certainly, but not the only part and maybe not the most important part given how infrequently they happen.

What is our average field position in relation to the rest of the league this year? I haven't tracked anything, but it seems like the Chiefs are heavily penalized during returns and often begin drives with poor field position.
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KCUnited 06:22 PM 10-20-2019
Squads are so used to the kickoff going through the EZ that when someone finally returns one they starting grabbing and blocking in the back.
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JakeF 06:26 PM 10-20-2019
Where do our special teams rank in number of penalties?
Where do they rank without Tyreek Hill?
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SupDock 06:28 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
They shouldn't.
Ok then
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SupDock 06:29 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by InChiefsHell:
To be fair, it seems all teams have this problem, not just the Chiefs. Football is hard to watch with all the damn laundry that flies on KR and PR.
Totally agree, I take more issue with DAT than the penalties
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tk13 06:34 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by InChiefsHell:
To be fair, it seems all teams have this problem, not just the Chiefs. Football is hard to watch with all the damn laundry that flies on KR and PR.
I'd be curious to see how that equates with teams getting less and less practice than they used to. It may not have any correlation at all.
[Reply]
Bowser 06:37 PM 10-20-2019
I hate the offseason
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MahiMike 07:01 PM 10-20-2019
Bullshit. Toub is an overpaid mid level manager. What the hell does he do all week besides tell his returners to fair catch the ball on the 5?

Come up with something. SOMETHING!

Remember Albert Lewis? That dude blocked so many punts. Do something drastic. For starters, don't even put someone back there the return the punt. Go all out for the block. 60% of all returns have a flag anyways.

Marty's teams sucked at offense, but they sure as hell knew how to get the ball back for their offense.

Toub supporters are the idiots.
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MahiMike 07:03 PM 10-20-2019
Another thing. Invent a better on-sides kick. Adjust to the new rules. Figure it out dammit.
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Megatron96 07:13 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by MahiMike:
Bullshit. Toub is an overpaid mid level manager. What the hell does he do all week besides tell his returners to fair catch the ball on the 5?

Come up with something. SOMETHING!

Remember Albert Lewis? That dude blocked so many punts. Do something drastic. For starters, don't even put someone back there the return the punt. Go all out for the block. 60% of all returns have a flag anyways.

Marty's teams sucked at offense, but they sure as hell knew how to get the ball back for their offense.

Toub supporters are the idiots.
Isn't he in charge of kicking and punting? You know, kick the ball off, kick the ball through the uprights, punt the ball and then cover, returning kicks and punts? That sort of thing?
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MahiMike 07:17 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Isn't he in charge of kicking and punting? You know, kick the ball off, kick the ball through the uprights, punt the ball and then cover, returning kicks and punts? That sort of thing?
Yup. How many minutes/per week does that take to plan? Apparently for Toub, it's about 5.

We don't let good players rest on their laurels. We sure as hell shouldn't let the coaches. Dude has like 10 plays total.

Andy has 1000.
[Reply]
Megatron96 07:21 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by MahiMike:
Yup. How many minutes/per week does that take to plan? Apparently for Toub, it's about 5.

We don't let good players rest on their laurels. We sure as hell shouldn't let the coaches. Dude has like 10 plays total.

Andy has 1000.
So the fact that he's coached a squad that's been top 10 every year since 2013, including last year ranking 2nd means he sucks? How is that figured?
[Reply]
RealSNR 08:02 PM 10-20-2019
Originally Posted by MahiMike:
Yup. How many minutes/per week does that take to plan? Apparently for Toub, it's about 5.

We don't let good players rest on their laurels. We sure as hell shouldn't let the coaches. Dude has like 10 plays total.

Andy has 1000.
Do you always try to act like you know what you're talking about by making crap up, or is it only on this forum?

Like, I'm wondering if that's how you go through life. Do you do it at your job? Has that had any negative consequences for your career?
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