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The Lounge>****OFFICIAL NBA Regular Season Thread****
dirk digler 10:59 AM 12-25-2011
Let's get it on... finally
Al Bundy 06:31 AM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by Jim Jones:
Still don't believe I'm wrong about that.
and yet you still are very wrong about it.
Jim Jones 06:31 AM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I'll take a wide open jump shot from a NBA player who's proven he can hit such a shot over a much more difficult, lower percentage, contested jump shot any time regardless of who is taking it.

NBA fans still aren't used to a superstar that passes as often and as well as LeBron does. Perhaps they never will be.
We're just going in circles now. You don't understand what "wide open" means. You don't understand what "contested" means. You don't understand what "uncontested" means. You say statistics don't mean anything in one post, then bring up different stats in your next post to defend your argument. You believe Udonis Haslem taking the game-winning shot attempt makes sense. Thanks for the most uneventful basketball discussion I've ever had in my life.

Originally Posted by :
You've shown yourself to be the kind of person that believes in things regardless of reason or legitimate evidence, so yes, I'm sure you still do.

Jim Jones 06:43 AM 03-04-2012
Actually, there's one more thing I want to ask you before I leave - was LeBron making "bad basketball plays" for the rest of the 4th quarter when he was ignoring mediocre teammates like Udonis Haslem, who were just as "wide open" as he was at the end of the game, to score on double teams and lead Miami back into the game?
KC_Connection 07:45 AM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by Jim Jones:
We're just going in circles now.
That can happen when somebody like yourself attempts to make an inane argument out of their dislike for one particular player.

Originally Posted by :
You don't understand what "wide open" means.
I do. Udonis Haslem had a wide open jump shot. It was the kind of shot he's hit consistently throughout his career, a shot that he should be expected to make.

Originally Posted by :
You don't understand what "contested" means.
I do. If LeBron James had decided to take the shot when facing a double team, it would have been a very difficult shot and contested by the two players that were near him. Considering the difficulty and his history with such shots, he probably would have missed.

Originally Posted by :
You don't understand what "uncontested" means.
I do. Udonis Haslem, outside of a late lunge by a player that wasn't covering him, had a shot that was completely uncontested (certainly in comparison to what LeBron would have had to take).

Originally Posted by :
You say statistics don't mean anything in one post, then bring up different stats in your next post to defend your argument.
The Haslem statistics that you brought up do mean something, they just don't come anywhere close to providing legitimate support for your argument. The sample size is far too small to suggest that he's completely regressed as a basketball player and the statistic itself doesn't differentiate open/uncontested shots and covered/contested shots.

Originally Posted by :
You believe Udonis Haslem taking the game-winning shot attempt makes sense.
I believe passing out of a double team to an open NBA player for an easy 15 footer is the right basketball play instead of forcing a difficult, contested shot under pressure, yes. As does any reasonable NBA fan without a serious bone to pick with LeBron James.

Originally Posted by :
Thanks for the most uneventful basketball discussion I've ever had in my life.
Until the next time you want to criticize an athlete without good reason, I guess?

Originally Posted by :
Actually, there's one more thing I want to ask you before I leave - was LeBron making "bad basketball plays" for the rest of the 4th quarter when he was ignoring mediocre teammates like Udonis Haslem, who were just as "wide open" as he was at the end of the game, to score on double teams and lead Miami back into the game?
Not at all. He was making great plays. I've never once said that him taking the last shot would have been necessarily a bad play. It just would have been much more difficult and lower percentage play than his pass to a proven open jump shooter from 15 feet.

Originally Posted by :

KC_Connection 07:50 AM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by UCF Knight:
and yet you still are very wrong about it.
He still apparently can't see how drastically different Bautista's swing post-September 2009 is, I guess.

Curtis Granderson had a similar power increase last year after a significant swing change and yet we don't have baseless claims of PED use with him. Funny how that works.
Pasta Giant Meatball 08:20 AM 03-04-2012
Connection will never admit he's wrong, but in this instance I agree with him. Sometimes you have to trust your teammates to make that open look.
chiefzilla1501 09:07 AM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
That can happen when somebody like yourself attempts to make an inane argument out of their dislike for one particular player.


I do. Udonis Haslem had a wide open jump shot. It was the kind of shot he's hit consistently throughout his career, a shot that he should be expected to make.


I do. If LeBron James had decided to take the shot when facing a double team, it would have been a very difficult shot and contested by the two players that were near him. Considering the difficulty and his history with such shots, he probably would have missed.


I do. Udonis Haslem, outside of a late lunge by a player that wasn't covering him, had a shot that was completely uncontested (certainly in comparison to what LeBron would have had to take).


The Haslem statistics that you brought up do mean something, they just don't come anywhere close to providing legitimate support for your argument. The sample size is far too small to suggest that he's completely regressed as a basketball player and the statistic itself doesn't differentiate open/uncontested shots and covered/contested shots.


I believe passing out of a double team to an open NBA player for an easy 15 footer is the right basketball play instead of forcing a difficult, contested shot under pressure, yes. As does any reasonable NBA fan without a serious bone to pick with LeBron James.


Until the next time you want to criticize an athlete without good reason, I guess?


Not at all. He was making great plays. I've never once said that him taking the last shot would have been necessarily a bad play. It just would have been much more difficult and lower percentage play than his pass to a proven open jump shooter from 15 feet.


The problem isn't whether it's a good or bad basketball play. The problem is that it only feeds a perception created well before the shot was ever taken.
The fact is, if LeBron takes that shot in a double team, that's also a good basketball play. And it's a shot most superstars take. He had plenty of room on the left to make a play.

As for the Jordan play, his pass to Steve Kerr was the play design. Jordan directly told Kerr on the bench to be on the lookout to take the shot. That's quite a bit different from LeBron, who clearly passed it to Haslem because he thought he was open.

Fact is, that in too many instances, we haven't seen LeBron with a killer instinct to close games. He doesn't want to be the guy. That's okay. I think the same thing about D Rose. It is what it is, but we can't pretend he's something that he's not.
dirk digler 11:50 AM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
The problem isn't whether it's a good or bad basketball play. The problem is that it only feeds a perception created well before the shot was ever taken.
The fact is, if LeBron takes that shot in a double team, that's also a good basketball play. And it's a shot most superstars take. He had plenty of room on the left to make a play.

As for the Jordan play, his pass to Steve Kerr was the play design. Jordan directly told Kerr on the bench to be on the lookout to take the shot. That's quite a bit different from LeBron, who clearly passed it to Haslem because he thought he was open.

Fact is, that in too many instances, we haven't seen LeBron with a killer instinct to close games. He doesn't want to be the guy. That's okay. I think the same thing about D Rose. It is what it is, but we can't pretend he's something that he's not.
I agree with everything you said except about Rose. Really? What I have seen from him is he is always willing to make the last shot and wants the ball. Maybe I am wrong that is just my perception..
L.A. Chieffan 11:54 AM 03-04-2012
I fucked up on the start time for the game today btw. Its 3:30 eastern
chiefzilla1501 12:03 PM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
I agree with everything you said except about Rose. Really? What I have seen from him is he is always willing to make the last shot and wants the ball. Maybe I am wrong that is just my perception..
I think Rose has a killer instinct. But he seems to be shaky or tentative in some of those situations. It might just be that Rose and LeBron play too many minutes. I don't know.

But at least he's a guy who wants the ball. Durant and Kobe, on the other hand, are guys who want the ball and are confident with the ball.
dirk digler 12:08 PM 03-04-2012
Rondo is owning Linn so they pulled him
dirk digler 12:12 PM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
I think Rose has a killer instinct. But he seems to be shaky or tentative in some of those situations. It might just be that Rose and LeBron play too many minutes. I don't know.

But at least he's a guy who wants the ball. Durant and Kobe, on the other hand, are guys who want the ball and are confident with the ball.
According to 82games.com Kobe and Rose were 1-2 in the clutch last season
Hammock Parties 01:18 PM 03-04-2012
IT'S ABOUT TO GO DOWN


Hammock Parties 01:19 PM 03-04-2012
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
Rondo is owning Linn so they pulled him
Lin is in foul trouble.
dirk digler 01:30 PM 03-04-2012
Pierce for the big 3 tied 60-60
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