Rashan Gary DE (Michigan): 6 4" 3/8; 277lb; 81 wingspan
Clein Ferrell DE (Clemson): 6 4" 3/8; 264lb, 82 wingspan
Nick Bosa DE (Ohio St): 6 3" 6/8; 266lb; 77 wingspan
Charles Omenihu DE (Texas): 6 5" 3/8; 280lb; 85 wingspan
Dude had to play in a 3/4 defense for the past few years at Texas...but will be a monster in a 4-3. He can play on either side of the line and has surprising burst for someone his size.
If all the top DB's are gone by the end of the first I'd take him. If Speaks doesn't take the next step this year he can fill in...if we let Ford walk after next season he could easily be the pass rushing DE to step up and fill in his space as well.
He's a guy who can stay on the field regardless of whether we are in our base or sub packages. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I dunno. I just don't see a guy that can get NFL sacks. I just rewatched Baylor and Maryland. Baylor controlled the shit out of him and he had a sack on a second effort really late in the play he just won't get in the NFL. Maryland's right tackle, Damien Prince, absolutely destroyed him 1 on 1 that entire game. Prince is an NFL caliber RT and he basically had zero issues with Omenihu. Omenihu doesn't look like he has much of a plan if his bull rush gets stymied and he just doesn't have the athleticism to beat even an average looking RT prospect to the corner. I'm okay if Veach wants to sit there and take the kid in round 2, but that's really pushing it for me. Round 1 I'd absolutely lose my shit.
Well, several scouts say he has the best handwork in the draft. And as for Prince shutting him out, well, I mean everyone says Fisher sucks, and he's had a few games where he made Joey Bosa invisible. So, I mean, whatever. It happens to everyone. His overall production is pretty good.
I'm not specifically hung up on him, there are a couple of guys I like a lot in that range.
But I doubt we're going to get a 245 lb. pass rush specialist. Unless it's late in the draft or a dumpster find FA like Ray. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I dunno. I just don't see a guy that can get NFL sacks. I just rewatched Baylor and Maryland. Baylor controlled the shit out of him and he had a sack on a second effort really late in the play he just won't get in the NFL. Maryland's right tackle, Damien Prince, absolutely destroyed him 1 on 1 that entire game. Prince is an NFL caliber RT and he basically had zero issues with Omenihu. Omenihu doesn't look like he has much of a plan if his bull rush gets stymied and he just doesn't have the athleticism to beat even an average looking RT prospect to the corner. I'm okay if Veach wants to sit there and take the kid in round 2, but that's really pushing it for me. Round 1 I'd absolutely lose my shit.
Where did Omenihu play in those games? The dude hardly had a 1-1 matchup as Texas bases out of a 3-4 under, so it's a bit bewildering that you're trying to use that as a benchmark. Texas bases out of a 3-4 under. He was largely in a 3 technique and was a good part of the reason LB Gary Johnson had so much success getting into the backfield last season.
Also, you're literally the only person I've read who doesn't appreciate his hands and pass rush moves.
I feel this is a case of you making up your mind about something and watching film to validate your feelings.
There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan:
Where did Omenihu play in those games? The dude hardly had a 1-1 matchup as Texas bases out of a 3-4 under, so it's a bit bewildering that you're trying to use that as a benchmark. Texas bases out of a 3-4 under. He was largely in a 3 technique and was a good part of the reason LB Gary Johnson had so much success getting into the backfield last season.
Also, you're literally the only person I've read who doesn't appreciate his hands and pass rush moves.
I feel this is a case of you making up your mind about something and watching film to validate your feelings.
There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front.
hey, you know where he'd get a ton of 1 on 1's? Playing next to Chris Jones. [Reply]
I still feel Omenihu is more the strong side fit than Leo. I know Speaks is going to start there but he can help out there and all over the DL. Just didn’t see the bend I’d like to see in a Leo. That’s why I like Burns or Ferrell. Ferrell is probably more Spags fit in terms of what he’ll want but Burns is a top 5 edge man. Love the dude and his natural ability to bend the corner for a 6’5 edge [Reply]
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan:
Where did Omenihu play in those games? The dude hardly had a 1-1 matchup as Texas bases out of a 3-4 under, so it's a bit bewildering that you're trying to use that as a benchmark. Texas bases out of a 3-4 under. He was largely in a 3 technique and was a good part of the reason LB Gary Johnson had so much success getting into the backfield last season.
Also, you're literally the only person I've read who doesn't appreciate his hands and pass rush moves.
I feel this is a case of you making up your mind about something and watching film to validate your feelings.
There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front.
Dude, seriously take off your Texas and Big 12 homer glasses for a minute and go watch those games. He was thoroughly dominated. He played primarily at DE against Maryland as a 3 and 5. He absolutely got his shit kicked in. If I were going off that tape alone, he wouldn't be on my draft board. It was literally that bad. They tried to move him around, especially down on the nose and to the opposite side. He was more effective with pressure but not by much. [Reply]
When you lay an unathletic turd of a game down, in fact two of those such turds out of 2, then you're an unathletic turd. Doesn't matter where you line the fuck up. His combine results match his unathletic self. He's a very average 4-3 base end. He isn't going to line up wide and bend the corner. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Dude, seriously take off your Texas and Big 12 homer glasses for a minute and go watch those games. He was thoroughly dominated. He played primarily at DE against Maryland as a 3 and 5. He absolutely got his shit kicked in. If I were going off that tape alone, he wouldn't be on my draft board. It was literally that bad. They tried to move him around, especially down on the nose and to the opposite side. He was more effective with pressure but not by much.
I've done a pretty good job of taking off the homer glasses. My feelings regarding him have been pretty consistent with the experts...a mid second to mid third round grade.
However, to be clear, I'm not the one in this thread going against the grain of every scout and expert in the industry by saying he has poor pass rush moves and hands (the latter of which is absolutely absurd).
I'm also not the dude saying that Austin Bryant (who most have as a third day pick) is a better prospect.
There's a reason why he is a pretty consensus mid second to mid third grade. Because he's a solid prospect. For KC, given the recent signing of a similar player in Okafor, it signals he'd probably be someone on our board and would be a good fit in our scheme.
It's not a surprise that the teams most associated with him are Seattle, Indianapolis, and KC. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan:
I've done a pretty good job of taking off the homer glasses. My feelings regarding him have been pretty consistent with the experts...a mid second to mid third round grade.
However, to be clear, I'm not the one in this thread going against the grain of every scout and expert in the industry by saying he has poor pass rush moves and hands (the latter of which is absolutely absurd).
I'm also not the dude saying that Austin Bryant (who most have as a third day pick) is a better prospect.
There's a reason why he is a pretty consensus mid second to mid third grade. Because he's a solid prospect. For KC, given the recent signing of a similar player in Okafor, it signals he'd probably be someone on our board and would be a good fit in our scheme.
It's not a surprise that the teams most associated with him are Seattle, Indianapolis, and KC.
Where do I talk about his hands? I talked about him not having any athleticism, can't bend the corner, and is lost when his bull rush is taken away. And he is. You can use whatever armchair expert analysis you want for that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Where do I talk about his hands? I talked about him not having any athleticism, can't bend the corner, and is lost when his bull rush is taken away. And he is. You can use whatever armchair expert analysis you want for that.
When you mention he is lost when his "bull rush" is taken away you are essentially saying the guy lacks hands and a pass rush.
The fact of the matter, if you've watched his film, is that the bull rush is not his primary tool in his pass rush. His go to move as a pass rusher concept is speed to power, where he is using his initial quickness off the snap to beat his man to space and then leveraging his strength to out leverage his blocker.
He was solid in this execution at Texas, especially his senior season largely as a 3 tech, as a SDE, in a 3-4 front. His burst is on par with Alex Okafor, who is a big bodied guy, who played as an SDE in college before graduating to the pros.
From that he works to a stab/club where he engages with his arms then uses his length to club down on the lineman's arms to break their engagement.
His bullrush is a tertiary rushing move of his and is not his predominant way of working to the back field.
The fact that you think the bull rush is his predominant move is an indictment of your ability to analyze and identify what a lineman is doing at the point of attack and the tactics he is utilizing to disrupt the backfield.
I don't know your experience playing or teaching the game, but any deficiency you have in understanding role/usage/execution has really been underscored throughout your evaluation here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan:
When you mention he is lost when his "bull rush" is taken away you are essentially saying the guy lacks hands and a pass rush.
The fact of the matter, if you've watched his film, is that the bull rush is not his primary tool in his pass rush. His go to move as a pass rusher concept is speed to power, where he is using his initial quickness off the snap to beat his man to space and then leveraging his strength to out leverage his blocker.
He was solid in this execution at Texas, especially for the role he was utilized in as a 3 tech, as a SDE, in a 3-4 front. His burst is on par with Alex Okafor, who is a big bodied guy, who played as an SDE in college before graduating to the pros.
From that he works to a stab/club where he engages with his arms then uses his length to club down on the lineman's arms to break their engagement.
His bullrush is a tertiary rushing move of his and is not his predominant way of working to the back field.
The fact that you think the bull rush is his predominant move is an indictment of your ability to analyze and identify what a lineman is doing at the point of attack.
I don't know your experience playing or teaching the game, but any deficiency you have in understanding role/usage/execution has really been underscored throughout your evaluation here.
If you want a class in what Omenihu can do go watch the Sugar Bowl. If you don't consider his performance against one of the best O-lines and backfields in college football to be worthwhile, then you have no business telling anyone what a good defensive end looks like.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
mancrush? like as in...what's not to like? 6'6", 275 lbs. Big 12 D-lineman of the year. 9.5 sacks. Excellent run defender. Aggressive, high motor guy. Relentless.
He's got the measurables, he's got the production. AND I don't think you'll have to trade up for him.
In this draft, I think Ferrell is better; but I think Omenihu or Allen are just behind him. Ferguson just a bit behind that-his agility measurables bother me but he's basically a Tamba Hali-type.
You guys crack me up. It's the armchair GM's that develop mancrushes and then trash other players because it's 'NOT MY GUY'.
this guy does a film study analysis and isnt a fan...devils advocate opinion here
I say this shit and I suddenly never played the game. This guy is extremely overrated here. I mean, by 3 rounds overrated. He's maybe worth a project day 3 to maybe compete with Speaks at LDE but I just don't see enough athleticism from this guy. He's probably better throwing on weight and being a run stopping DT in the NFL. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I say this shit and I suddenly never played the game. This guy is extremely overrated here. I mean, by 3 rounds overrated. He's maybe worth a project day 3 to maybe compete with Speaks at LDE but I just don't see enough athleticism from this guy. He's probably better throwing on weight and being a run stopping DT in the NFL.
