Rashan Gary DE (Michigan): 6 4" 3/8; 277lb; 81 wingspan
Clein Ferrell DE (Clemson): 6 4" 3/8; 264lb, 82 wingspan
Nick Bosa DE (Ohio St): 6 3" 6/8; 266lb; 77 wingspan
Charles Omenihu DE (Texas): 6 5" 3/8; 280lb; 85 wingspan
Dude had to play in a 3/4 defense for the past few years at Texas...but will be a monster in a 4-3. He can play on either side of the line and has surprising burst for someone his size.
If all the top DB's are gone by the end of the first I'd take him. If Speaks doesn't take the next step this year he can fill in...if we let Ford walk after next season he could easily be the pass rushing DE to step up and fill in his space as well.
He's a guy who can stay on the field regardless of whether we are in our base or sub packages. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
But when you spend multiple high picks on the same position, at some point, you have high picks sitting on the bench. That's really not a recipe for success. Your 1st and 2nd rounders need to be starters, not depth.
But if you choose to pass on talented players because you're pot committed to a prior guy (rather than willing to consider the possibility that he's a sunk cost), then you're Scott Pioli and that's not really a recipe for success either.
I think you can squint and see the same style of player in Omenihu as you have in Speaks, I simply think Omenihu is far more likely to prove worthy of the pick (provided it's in the 2nd; I'd be hard pressed to take him in the 1st as the lack of bend admittedly dents his ceiling quite a bit). [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But if you choose to pass on talented players because you're pot committed to a prior guy (rather than willing to consider the possibility that he's a sunk cost), then you're Scott Pioli and that's not really a recipe for success either.
I think you can squint and see the same style of player in Omenihu as you have in Speaks, I simply think Omenihu is far more likely to prove worthy of the pick (provided it's in the 2nd; I'd be hard pressed to take him in the 1st as the lack of bend admittedly dents his ceiling quite a bit).
Given that Veach not only took Speaks in the 2nd round but traded up to get him, he probably thinks A LOT more highly of him than any of us do. Meaning, he doesn't seen him as a sunk cost, at least not yet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
But when you spend multiple high picks on the same position, at some point, you have high picks sitting on the bench. That's really not a recipe for success. Your 1st and 2nd rounders need to be starters, not depth.
I think you're a little stuck on the idea that one DE spot is drastically different from the other in Spags' 4-3. It's not really.
just like everyone touting these less than 250 lb. 'edge' guys. That's not gonna work.
the idea is, I believe, beef up front, with some pass rush ability that will be further schemed into stunts, crosses, and blitzing for pressure.
An Omenihu type at RDE is great in this scheme. Doesn't matter if Speaks is similar, or Okafor, or if Kpass is physically similar. They're going to move them around, they're going to rotate them in and out. It's not about 'speed rush' it's about Stopping the run first and then generating pressure with solid rushers and scheme. [Reply]
Yeah, that's where I am as well. They're just not looking for a Bruce Irving type. What I expected them to be after at DE simply isn't what they appear to actually be looking for.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, that's where I am as well. They're just not looking for a Bruce Irving type. What I expected them to be after at DE simply isn't what they appear to actually be looking for.
Omenihu fits their actions.
any sub 250 lb. guy is going to be a situational pass rusher, and will not be priority.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I think you're a little stuck on the idea that one DE spot is drastically different from the other in Spags' 4-3. It's not really.
just like everyone touting these less than 250 lb. 'edge' guys. That's not gonna work.
the idea is, I believe, beef up front, with some pass rush ability that will be further schemed into stunts, crosses, and blitzing for pressure.
An Omenihu type at RDE is great in this scheme. Doesn't matter if Speaks is similar, or Okafor, or if Kpass is physically similar. They're going to move them around, they're going to rotate them in and out. It's not about 'speed rush' it's about Stopping the run first and then generating pressure with solid rushers and scheme.
If that's the case, then they're much less redundant. I guess it all depends on how he runs his scheme because in a lot of 4-3 under looks, you're not going to have mirror images at LDE and RDE.
That being said, letting Ford go makes a lot of sense if they want Speaks/Okafor/Omenihu guys at BOTH DE spots, so you're probably 100% correct in what you've said. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
If that's the case, then they're much less redundant. I guess it all depends on how he runs his scheme because in a lot of 4-3 under looks, you're not going to have mirror images at LDE and RDE.
That being said, letting Ford go makes a lot of sense if they want Speaks/Okafor/Omenihu guys at BOTH DE spots, so you're probably 100% correct in what you've said.
it's also why Rapp would make a lot of sense.
The idea is that many guys that can do many things; so as an offense you can't just plan to run at Dee Ford all day.
For example.
Two safeties that can play deep or box on any given play. Three LB'ers, two of which can play any of the positions.
DE's that are somewhat interchangeable and you can rotate to keep fresh all game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
Guys are going to freak out because if all the top Passrushers are gone, because Veach will trade up for another draft mancrush
mancrush? like as in...what's not to like? 6'6", 275 lbs. Big 12 D-lineman of the year. 9.5 sacks. Excellent run defender. Aggressive, high motor guy. Relentless.
He's got the measurables, he's got the production. AND I don't think you'll have to trade up for him.
In this draft, I think Ferrell is better; but I think Omenihu or Allen are just behind him. Ferguson just a bit behind that-his agility measurables bother me but he's basically a Tamba Hali-type.
You guys crack me up. It's the armchair GM's that develop mancrushes and then trash other players because it's 'NOT MY GUY'. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
mancrush? like as in...what's not to like? 6'6", 275 lbs. Big 12 D-lineman of the year. 9.5 sacks. Excellent run defender. Aggressive, high motor guy. Relentless.
He's got the measurables, he's got the production. AND I don't think you'll have to trade up for him.
In this draft, I think Ferrell is better; but I think Omenihu or Allen are just behind him. Ferguson just a bit behind that-his agility measurables bother me but he's basically a Tamba Hali-type.
You guys crack me up. It's the armchair GM's that develop mancrushes and then trash other players because it's 'NOT MY GUY'.
I'm not at that short sighted or reactionary because if they are put in a position to succeed and not nullifying their natural skillset then everything will be cool [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
I'm not at that short sighted or reactionary because if they are put in a position to succeed and not nullifying their natural skillset then everything will be cool
confusing sentence structure is confusing.
I THINK you're saying you're not being reactionary and if they're put in a position to use their skillset well then all is cool.
there's a lot to like about a LOT of these players this year. I didn't know anything about Zach Allen but he kept popping up in my mocks so I went and watched some tape. Now, true, we're talking about highlight reels, but he just abused offensive linemen from big time programs. In the run game and as a pass rusher. I heard him called 'the most complete defensive lineman in college football'.
I like Omenihu a lot as well; and he too played well against good competition. Ferrell I thought was smaller than that because he plays damned quick. I was surprised when I looked up his size, I thought he was more a 3-4 edge type.
so yeah, I bet Ferrell is gone and if Veach has a mancrush and goes up to get somebody that'd be him. I could live with that. But I think Omenihu or Allen fall to you and maybe as far as 2nd round. [Reply]
I dunno. I just don't see a guy that can get NFL sacks. I just rewatched Baylor and Maryland. Baylor controlled the shit out of him and he had a sack on a second effort really late in the play he just won't get in the NFL. Maryland's right tackle, Damien Prince, absolutely destroyed him 1 on 1 that entire game. Prince is an NFL caliber RT and he basically had zero issues with Omenihu. Omenihu doesn't look like he has much of a plan if his bull rush gets stymied and he just doesn't have the athleticism to beat even an average looking RT prospect to the corner. I'm okay if Veach wants to sit there and take the kid in round 2, but that's really pushing it for me. Round 1 I'd absolutely lose my shit. [Reply]