Originally Posted by kccrow:
I don't ever recall you pushing for Hock in 1, but perhaps you did. I thought I recalled you saying it would be a good pick if he was there at 29.
In any event, teams draft the best player available at a position of immediate or near future need and rarely just pick the best player on the board. Hock would be the best player on the board pick. The Chiefs don't need a #1 TE. Sure, they need to bolster the TE group as a whole, but they have Travis Kelce who is likely to play 3-5 more years depending on health.
Even if Hock were there, I don't see KC making that pick. I could see them trading down a few slots with a team that did want him. That said, I absolutely agree he's likely going in the top half of the 1st.
I'd trade up to 18/19 to get him if I needed to.
It's not because I think we need a TE2 as much as it is that I think we could fundamentally alter some of our personnel packages in a way that make us more effective both in the air AND on the ground.
You put Hock in this lineup and you could run 12 personnel 80% of the time. And with Kelce's ability to play as a Move TE and split out, you can 'flex' into 11 personnel and create nightmare mis-matches that they'd never be able to address based merely on the guys in the huddle. Or you can stick in 12 and make the shotgun runs significantly more effective while still being dangerous as hell in the air given Kelce's ability to work downfield and the Watkins/Hill duos ability to force teams to keep a guy deep. Try to defend that squad in a Cover 2 - I dare you. And a Cover 1 will get you wrecked. So what - Cover 3 over? Well again, that's how our run game can take a step forward.
Hock would do more to unlock this team's offensive potential than any player we could take at any point in this draft, IMO. And I simply don't see a rush to overcommit on defense in this draft when we aren't sure exactly how the changes we've made will work in practice. If we can get a top 20 defense with our present personnel, I'd be all over the possibility of taking this offense to a point where it's a slam-dunk 32 points/gm.
Where I diverge from pretty much 80% of the board in this draft is that I'm simply not a 'defense or bust' guy in this draft. I understand the feeling that we need to get his defense to a top 10 status because of how bad it's been of late, but that's not how we're gonna win games. That's not how Andy even cares to try to win games. So if I see a way for us to make a defensive pick that saves us, say, 3 points/gm on defense or an offensive pick that scores us 5 points/gm on offense, I'm taking the offensive guy. I'm not even sure I see that '3 pt/gm' defensive guy possibly available to us given what I believe will be a heavy emphasis on substitution packages and team defense.
And Hock is just so uniquely situated to be that '5 pt/gm' guy for us that I'd probably be willing to aggressively move up to get him. I just don't think it's happening. I don't think he'll ever get within range of us. And that's also why I think Bradbury is a defensible pick. Not because 'we have to protect Mahomes' but because I think he can unlock some things in the run game that other guys available to us even in the 2nd cannot. And when guys that I think we CAN get in the 2nd on the defensive side of the ball are going to be pretty damn close to the guys available to us in the 1st - well I'm comfortable shell-gaming that a bit, doing a little bit of arbitrage and trying to maximize the overall return across the board for our first two days worth of picks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Hey I’m all for taking Hock at 29 in the dream scenario that he makes it there. That’s wasn’t a shot at all.
Edit: just saw you figured it out in your next post
Yeah, I tend to hit the 'last post' button and them move up a thread when I've been in it recently, so I saw those posts in reverse order.
But yeah, I won't shy away from being a Hockenson stan (speaking of things I don't know the origin of - how the hell did 'stan' become a thing?). I love that dude and think he could be an enormous difference maker for us. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, I tend to hit the 'last post' button and them move up a thread when I've been in it recently, so I saw those posts in reverse order.
But yeah, I won't shy away from being a Hockenson stan (speaking of things I don't know the origin of - how the hell did 'stan' become a thing?). I love that dude and think he could be an enormous difference maker for us.
We give up a 2nd and a 6th to move up to 21. We get back Seattle's 4th round pick. Then we trade out of the 2nd round with GB for a 3rd and a 4th.
1 21 C Garrett Bradbury, NC State from SEA*
1 29 to Seattle
2 61 to Green Bay
2 63 to Seattle from LAR
3 75 CB Amani Oruwariye, Penn State from GB*
3 92 SS Amani Hooker, Iowa
4 114 DE L.J. Collier, TCU from GB*
4 124 CB Jordan Brown, South Dakota State from SEA*
5 167 RB Mike Weber, Ohio State
6 201 OLB Dre Greenlaw, Arkansas
6 214 to Seattle
7 216 TE Zach Gentry, Michigan from SF [Reply]
We give up a 2nd and a 6th to move up to 21. We get back Seattle's 4th round pick. Then we trade out of the 2nd round with GB for a 3rd and a 4th.
1 21 C Garrett Bradbury, NC State from SEA*
1 29 to Seattle
2 61 to Green Bay
2 63 to Seattle from LAR
3 75 CB Amani Oruwariye, Penn State from GB*
3 92 SS Amani Hooker, Iowa
4 114 DE L.J. Collier, TCU from GB*
4 124 CB Jordan Brown, South Dakota State from SEA*
5 167 RB Mike Weber, Ohio State
6 201 OLB Dre Greenlaw, Arkansas
6 214 to Seattle
7 216 TE Zach Gentry, Michigan from SF
Lord God almighty that's a terrible idea. I actually don't mind the idea of moving one of the 2nds for a 3rd and 4th now that we've done the Mock; there's a lot of depth talent through the late 2nd and into the early 4th and I think we can get a viable 2 for 1 deal there that works nicely for us.
But man, giving up the other 2 to move up and take Bradbury is nutty as hell. I like the guy but...no way. If we could find a couple willing partners I'd actually consider moving both of those 2s for a pair of 3s and 4s, depending on how the board looks. But there's no way I'm using one to move up for Bradbury. [Reply]
We give up a 2nd and a 6th to move up to 21. We get back Seattle's 4th round pick. Then we trade out of the 2nd round with GB for a 3rd and a 4th.
1 21 C Garrett Bradbury, NC State from SEA*
1 29 to Seattle
2 61 to Green Bay
2 63 to Seattle from LAR
3 75 CB Amani Oruwariye, Penn State from GB*
3 92 SS Amani Hooker, Iowa
4 114 DE L.J. Collier, TCU from GB*
4 124 CB Jordan Brown, South Dakota State from SEA*
5 167 RB Mike Weber, Ohio State
6 201 OLB Dre Greenlaw, Arkansas
6 214 to Seattle
7 216 TE Zach Gentry, Michigan from SF
this has got to be the worst mock draft i have ever seen in my entire life [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Lord God almighty that's a terrible idea. I actually don't mind the idea of moving one of the 2nds for a 3rd and 4th now that we've done the Mock; there's a lot of depth talent through the late 2nd and into the early 4th and I think we can get a viable 2 for 1 deal there that works nicely for us.
But man, giving up the other 2 to move up and take Bradbury is nutty as hell. I like the guy but...no way. If we could find a couple willing partners I'd actually consider moving both of those 2s for a pair of 3s and 4s, depending on how the board looks. But there's no way I'm using one to move up for Bradbury.
Yeah.....it was horrible so I figured I had to post it. I was fine with the trade down in the 2nd....but no way am I trading up 8 spots for a center. I'd rather see...
1.29 - Jerry Tillery, DT
2.63 - Darnell Savage, FS
3.75 - Jachai Polite, DE
3.92 - Michael Jordan, OC
4.114 - Kris Boyd, CB
5.167 - Isaac Nauta, TE
Pick whoever you want after the 5th round at that point. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Yeah.....it was horrible so I figured I had to post it. I was fine with the trade down in the 2nd....but no way am I trading up 8 spots for a center. I'd rather see...
1.29 - Jerry Tillery, DT
2.63 - Darnell Savage, FS
3.75 - Jachai Polite, DE
3.92 - Michael Jordan, OC
4.114 - Kris Boyd, CB
5.167 - Isaac Nauta, TE
Pick whoever you want after the 5th round at that point.
Based on that mock:
1.29 -- Byron Murphy; would love that pick
I'd try to spike that 2.63 for something similar to the trade they made with 2.61, let's say to Minnesota for 80 and 121? Seem fair given that 61 got us 75 and 114?
75 -- De'Andre Walker
80 -- Jachai Polite
92 -- Amani Hooker is probably a good call there
114 -- Foster Moreau
121 -- Gaillard is the last true C on the board so I'd go Gaillard here
167 -- Tons of good WR depth still; Lodge or Ratliff-Wilson
201 -- Ben Burr-Kirven
214 -- Darwin Thompson
216 -- John Cominsky
Hard to do a thing like that and not 'game' the board so I would try to only scroll down about 15 spots to see who was there without giving away who I could wait on.
Not sure there's any room for Cominsky with the Polite pick, but honestly it's late enough that I'd do it anyway and if Polite tossed K-Pass off the roster, I'd give Cominsky a shot at unseating Ogbah. I like Darwin Thompson as an RB3 quite a bit. Burr-Kirven will be a special teams standout early w/ a similar upside to Anzalone in NO. I love me some Foster Moreau and probably reached but that's what happens when you're trying to do one of these things off a board you're intentionally ignoring. Got a true Sam in Walker, a hell of a FS hybrid slot guy in Hooker to pair with Mathieu and the only 1st round CB I see in this draft in Murphy.
