Originally Posted by tk13:
That was a nice win against a playoff contender tonight. Kennedy gets to 30 saves. Aren't many Royals pitchers who've done that.
Ian Kennedy is now just the 3rd pitcher in MLB history to have a 20 win season and a 30 save season in their career. Joins Smoltz and Eckersley
So the recent mention of Hootie made me recall the debates re: extending Salvy. It went something like this....Salvy was pissy he signed a 5/7.5 deal with 3 option years after (17-19).
Wanted to renegotiate. Everyone agreed that was fine. Hootie the retard said to tear up the last 3 option years entirely and go 5-75 but only a retard would offer that without anything in return.
DM agreed to essentially void his 3 option seasons in 2017-19. They were worth $15m. He got a 6/52 instead starting in 2017. So instead of avg 5/per he got 8.75/per with signing bonus of 6 upfront.
Anyway, since then he’s been worth 1.8 fWAR total in three years. Not good Salvy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Man the pitching is so hopeless it’s almost moot trying to fix any of it for 2020. (Kyle yesterday was about as bad as I’ve ever seen a pitcher and that’s saying a lot. Was like an Albie Lopez or Jerry Spradlin). Not sure what the answer is there.
You can platoon Cuthbert at 1B with ROH. Get you 259-20-75 for $1M. That’s fine by me. Leaves 3B and LF. No clue there.
Has Dozier been that bad defensively at 3b this year? Would he be any different in LF? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
So the recent mention of Hootie made me recall the debates re: extending Salvy. It went something like this....Salvy was pissy he signed a 5/7.5 deal with 3 option years after (17-19).
Wanted to renegotiate. Everyone agreed that was fine. Hootie the retard said to tear up the last 3 option years entirely and go 5-75 but only a retard would offer that without anything in return.
DM agreed to essentially void his 3 option seasons in 2017-19. They were worth $15m. He got a 6/52 instead starting in 2017. So instead of avg 5/per he got 8.75/per with signing bonus of 6 upfront.
Anyway, since then he’s been worth 1.8 fWAR total in three years. Not good Salvy.
We should have traded him 2 years ago but you retards were worried about attendance. As it turns out people quit coming even with Salvy on the team because KC is a fairweather baseball town. [Reply]
Hopefully Salvy realizes he’s f**** over the team and esp DM with his bad play. He needs a big season or two. Dude better be working out and eating right....we don’t wanna see a blimp walking out there opening day [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
So the recent mention of Hootie made me recall the debates re: extending Salvy. It went something like this....Salvy was pissy he signed a 5/7.5 deal with 3 option years after (17-19).
Wanted to renegotiate. Everyone agreed that was fine. Hootie the retard said to tear up the last 3 option years entirely and go 5-75 but only a retard would offer that without anything in return.
DM agreed to essentially void his 3 option seasons in 2017-19. They were worth $15m. He got a 6/52 instead starting in 2017. So instead of avg 5/per he got 8.75/per with signing bonus of 6 upfront.
Anyway, since then he’s been worth 1.8 fWAR total in three years. Not good Salvy.
I thought you were done with Fangraphs WAR?
Their C metrics are particularly weird because of the dramatic emphasis they place on pitch framing?
Perez is 2.5, 2.4 in 17 and 18 on BRef, which is superior, IMO.
He was hurt all of this season and obviously provided no value (the team likely also recouped a good portion of his salary in insurance, which is standard for almost all big deals like his.
He needs to provide 6.5 wins over the course of his deal to meet market value. He’s most likely going to do that.
Re: trading him... always easy to say “trade the guy for a haul!” ... finding the team with the need and willingness to pay a price that makes it worth moving him is another thing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I thought you were done with Fangraphs WAR?
Their C metrics are particularly weird because of the dramatic emphasis they place on pitch framing?
Perez is 2.5, 2.4 in 17 and 18 on BRef, which is superior, IMO.
He was hurt all of this season and obviously provided no value (the team likely also recouped a good portion of his salary in insurance, which is standard for almost all big deals like his.
He needs to provide 6.5 wins over the course of his deal to meet market value. He’s most likely going to do that.
Re: trading him... always easy to say “trade the guy for a haul!” ... finding the team with the need and willingness to pay a price that makes it worth moving him is another thing.
I do think it’s off, so let’s double it to 3 War. For 26m? Not exactly a good deal. That’s a guy you let walk frankly.
And this belabors the main point: we didn’t HAVE to give him shit. We had him 2017-19 at $15M and we would be done now. This cannot be compared to a typical FA signing because we don’t have LEVERAGE on them.
If I can’t get this distinction across then I’m talking to myself. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
I do think it’s off, so let’s double it to 3 War. For 26m? Not exactly a good deal. That’s a guy you let walk frankly.
And this belabors the main point: we didn’t HAVE to give him shit. We had him 2017-19 at $15M and we would be done now. This cannot be compared to a typical FA signing because we don’t have LEVERAGE on them.
If I can’t get this distinction across then I’m talking to myself.
From a purely financial standpoint, no they did not.
From a culture perspective, if they had played out the string on Perez’s initial deal it could have damaged them with existing and future players, in terms of reputation. If you develop a reputation for playing hardball with players, it will hamper your ability to sign players (whether as FA or to extensions, etc.)
Real life baseball isn’t OOTP baseball. The players aren’t simulations. There are emotions to address, too. [Reply]
Well then you’re bringing things I can’t quantify or debate.
The real point is , war to date doesn’t even matter. We were getting that war under either Contract. . We paid him +9M we didn’t have to (26 vs 17) in order to get him to extend two years, and at a team friendly rate.
So you have to ADD the +9 we are in the hole to his 2/28.4 extension. We are in reality paying 2/37.4m to a guy coming off TJ. I can post the recent FA contracts for catchers if you’d like but you prob already know they’re very low figures, nearly all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Well then you’re bringing things I can’t quantify or debate.
The real point is , war to date doesn’t even matter. We were getting that war under either Contract. . We paid him +9M we didn’t have to (26 vs 17) in order to get him to extend two years, and at a team friendly rate.
So you have to ADD the +9 we are in the hole to his 2/28.4 extension. We are in reality paying 2/37.4m to a guy coming off TJ. I can post the recent FA contracts for catchers if you’d like but you prob already know they’re very low figures, nearly all.
Yeah, those are things in the “hard to quantify” bucket. Which many forget or won’t acknowledge in the saber-heavy environment today.
He likely would have had a similar market as Yasmani Grandal had he hit FA after this season after the team ran through its original options for him, if healthy and coming off a typical recent season (good power, hoot catch and throw, good receiving and blocking, lackluster OBP and framing). Which actually would be pretty in line with the 37 million figure you’re talking about. [Reply]