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The Lounge>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
petegz28 09:11 PM 11-21-2020
Apparently now loud music and alcohol spread Covid

CDC telling me I can’t get drunk for the holidays is the last straw pic.twitter.com/GBBMK5gOik

— Jon �� (@JonnyMicro) November 21, 2020

[Reply]
jdubya 09:31 PM 11-21-2020
Vaccines are here. Its all good. Just need to fasten the seatbelts for another couple of months. Front line folks will get vaccines mid December and the rest of us will be good to go by March or so....
[Reply]
bigdaddychieffan 09:35 PM 11-21-2020
I lost a coworker and friend to Covid 2 days ago. It is real and it really sucks. Prayers for all going through this unprecedented thing for most of us to go through. A pandemic. Please let’s all have compassion for each other and wear a mask to do what we can to help hopefully prevent even just one more death. Who knows for sure how effective they are but something has to be better than nothing.
[Reply]
petegz28 11-21-2020, 09:38 PM
This message has been deleted by petegz28. Reason: wrong thread
loochy 09:41 PM 11-21-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
Apparently now loud music and alcohol spread Covid
CDC telling me I can’t get drunk for the holidays is the last straw pic.twitter.com/GBBMK5gOik
— Jon �� (@JonnyMicro) November 21, 2020

So who's going to stop you?
[Reply]
BigRedChief 09:51 PM 11-21-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
KDHE, media collaborate on more mask mandate deception

Once again, the Kansas Department of Health and Environment and media are collaborating to deceive Kansans about the effectiveness of mask mandates. To be clear, this isn’t about whether masks are beneficial; it is strictly about whether government mandates work. After two previous efforts were debunked, KDHE and their media friends tried it a third time today, with a Kansas City Star headline falsely proclaiming “CDC report: COVID-19 cases dropped in Kansas counties with mask orders, rose in others.”



KDHE data shows there were 411 cases per 100,000 of population on July 3 in the 24 counties that CDC researchers say adopted the governor’s order. By August 24 those counties experienced a 207% increase to 1,262 cases per 100,000. (The CDC report ends on August 23 but KDHE hasn’t published data for that day.) The other 81 counties went from 825 cases per 100,000 to 1,271 cases, for an increase of just 54%.

So how do KDHE and media justify their false claim that “cases dropped” in the counties that followed the governor’s order?

Dr. Russ McCullough, founder and director of the Gwartney Institute at Ottawa University, explains the deception.

“Cases per 100,000 is not what is being measured in this study that shows a downward trend. They are showing the rate of change of 7-day average cases, which does not fully reflect the story in Kansas. The evidence provided by this graph does not conclusively show that the mask mandate worked, there are many other factors needing to be considered.”

Only people intent on deceiving readers would claim cases dropped in counties with mandates when cases increased 207%.

Here’s a chart from the CDC report, which makes it appear that cases went down in the mandate counties but increased elsewhere.



KDHE doesn’t publish daily case statistics so we can’t replicate their 7-day rolling average numbers, but we can get close by tracking the change from one week to the next.

The table on the left below shows the total cases per 100,000 of population for both county cohorts. The middle section shows the weekly change in cases; for example, the mandate counties went from 411 cases on July 3 to 526 on July 10, for an increase of 114 cases. An increase of 114 cases for the week ending July 10 represents a 28% increase over the 411 case total in the previous week as shown in the table on the right.



The percentages in the right-hand table are charted below, starting with the 28% increase for the mandate counties, followed by a 27% increase (over the previous week’s total), then 19%, 13%, and so on. KDHE and media only show this type of chart because it gives the appearance that cases declined in the counties with mandates.



Now look what happens when you chart the cumulative number of cases per 100,000 of population. It’s a completely different picture, which makes it crystal clear that the mandate counties had much faster growth.



On July 3, the counties without mandates had more than twice as many cases per 100,000 of population than the counties with mask mandates, but because they only grew by 54% while the mandate counties’ cases jumped 207%, both groups had almost the same number of cases on August 21.

Factors not considered in CDC report

CDC seems to have only considered one variable – whether counties had a mask mandate. But even though cases were adjusted for population differences (roughly 1.96 million in the mandate counties and about 953,000 in the other group), there were other factors at play.

The virus didn’t spread uniformly across counties, but initially hit the more densely populated urban areas and gradually spread to rural counties. On July 3, there were nine counties with no cases among those that didn’t adopt the mandate and six more counties had just one case; but every county that adopted the mandate had at least two cases.

Mask usage is another variable. Just because a county didn’t impose a mandate doesn’t mean that no one in the county wore a mask; by the same token, having a mandate doesn’t mean that everyone wore a mask.

As my colleague Michael Austin notes, “Many national polls revealed Americans like masks, and two independent surveys say over 90% of Kansans, in both mandated and non-mandated counties, wear masks at some frequency.”

Without adjusting for these and other variables, one cannot reasonably conclude that mandates work.

Third time that mandate claims are debunked

This isn’t the first time that media and government officials collaborated to mislead Kansans about the efficacy of mandates. (Remember, this isn’t about whether masks are beneficial; it’s about badgering you to do whatever the hell the governor and other officials order you to do.)

The Wall Street Journal and the Sentinel caught KDHE Secretary Dr. Lee Norman fudging data in August to justify Governor Kelly’s mask mandate.

Then, one day after Governor Kelly announced she wanted another statewide mandate, friendly researchers at the University of Kansas just happened to release a report claiming that mandates work. But the Sentinel also shot that one down; we caught them doing something similar to the CDC report, hiding the much larger cumulative case growth in counties with mandates.

We wrote to management at the Kansas City Star, the Wichita Eagle, Lawrence Journal-World, and the Kansas Reflector to let them know they’d been duped by Norman, Kelly, and the KU researchers. We shared the real data with them and offered to help them inform their readers what really happened but to date, each is allowing the deception to stand.

COVID is a serious situation but that’s no excuse to abandon the truth. The job of media and elected officials is to provide all the information and allow citizens to make their own informed decisions. Media and some elected officials may prefer a socialist society so they can order people what to think, but thank goodness freedom of speech and thought still exist in our constitutional republic.

https://sentinelksmo.org/kdhe-media-...WWJ8w1Lj0VwPxQ
You should move to Florida. It’s more your style.

Pursuing herd immunity “is just a bad idea,” said an epidemiologist who compiled state data showing new cases rising among people aged 65 and older. “If you let it rip, [the virus] finds its way into vulnerable communities.” https://t.co/JuSLinqCcw

— sorayah (@ssorayah) November 19, 2020

[Reply]
stumppy 10:07 PM 11-21-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
KDHE, media collaborate on more mask mandate deception

Once again, the Kansas Department of Health and Environment and media are collaborating to deceive Kansans about the effectiveness of mask mandates. To be clear, this isn’t about whether masks are beneficial; it is strictly about whether government mandates work. After two previous efforts were debunked, KDHE and their media friends tried it a third time today, with a Kansas City Star headline falsely proclaiming “CDC report: COVID-19 cases dropped in Kansas counties with mask orders, rose in others.”



KDHE data shows there were 411 cases per 100,000 of population on July 3 in the 24 counties that CDC researchers say adopted the governor’s order. By August 24 those counties experienced a 207% increase to 1,262 cases per 100,000. (The CDC report ends on August 23 but KDHE hasn’t published data for that day.) The other 81 counties went from 825 cases per 100,000 to 1,271 cases, for an increase of just 54%.

So how do KDHE and media justify their false claim that “cases dropped” in the counties that followed the governor’s order?

Dr. Russ McCullough, founder and director of the Gwartney Institute at Ottawa University, explains the deception.

“Cases per 100,000 is not what is being measured in this study that shows a downward trend. They are showing the rate of change of 7-day average cases, which does not fully reflect the story in Kansas. The evidence provided by this graph does not conclusively show that the mask mandate worked, there are many other factors needing to be considered.”

Only people intent on deceiving readers would claim cases dropped in counties with mandates when cases increased 207%.

Here’s a chart from the CDC report, which makes it appear that cases went down in the mandate counties but increased elsewhere.



KDHE doesn’t publish daily case statistics so we can’t replicate their 7-day rolling average numbers, but we can get close by tracking the change from one week to the next.

The table on the left below shows the total cases per 100,000 of population for both county cohorts. The middle section shows the weekly change in cases; for example, the mandate counties went from 411 cases on July 3 to 526 on July 10, for an increase of 114 cases. An increase of 114 cases for the week ending July 10 represents a 28% increase over the 411 case total in the previous week as shown in the table on the right.



The percentages in the right-hand table are charted below, starting with the 28% increase for the mandate counties, followed by a 27% increase (over the previous week’s total), then 19%, 13%, and so on. KDHE and media only show this type of chart because it gives the appearance that cases declined in the counties with mandates.



Now look what happens when you chart the cumulative number of cases per 100,000 of population. It’s a completely different picture, which makes it crystal clear that the mandate counties had much faster growth.



On July 3, the counties without mandates had more than twice as many cases per 100,000 of population than the counties with mask mandates, but because they only grew by 54% while the mandate counties’ cases jumped 207%, both groups had almost the same number of cases on August 21.

Factors not considered in CDC report

CDC seems to have only considered one variable – whether counties had a mask mandate. But even though cases were adjusted for population differences (roughly 1.96 million in the mandate counties and about 953,000 in the other group), there were other factors at play.

The virus didn’t spread uniformly across counties, but initially hit the more densely populated urban areas and gradually spread to rural counties. On July 3, there were nine counties with no cases among those that didn’t adopt the mandate and six more counties had just one case; but every county that adopted the mandate had at least two cases.

Mask usage is another variable. Just because a county didn’t impose a mandate doesn’t mean that no one in the county wore a mask; by the same token, having a mandate doesn’t mean that everyone wore a mask.

As my colleague Michael Austin notes, “Many national polls revealed Americans like masks, and two independent surveys say over 90% of Kansans, in both mandated and non-mandated counties, wear masks at some frequency.”

Without adjusting for these and other variables, one cannot reasonably conclude that mandates work.

Third time that mandate claims are debunked

This isn’t the first time that media and government officials collaborated to mislead Kansans about the efficacy of mandates. (Remember, this isn’t about whether masks are beneficial; it’s about badgering you to do whatever the hell the governor and other officials order you to do.)

The Wall Street Journal and the Sentinel caught KDHE Secretary Dr. Lee Norman fudging data in August to justify Governor Kelly’s mask mandate.

Then, one day after Governor Kelly announced she wanted another statewide mandate, friendly researchers at the University of Kansas just happened to release a report claiming that mandates work. But the Sentinel also shot that one down; we caught them doing something similar to the CDC report, hiding the much larger cumulative case growth in counties with mandates.

We wrote to management at the Kansas City Star, the Wichita Eagle, Lawrence Journal-World, and the Kansas Reflector to let them know they’d been duped by Norman, Kelly, and the KU researchers. We shared the real data with them and offered to help them inform their readers what really happened but to date, each is allowing the deception to stand.

COVID is a serious situation but that’s no excuse to abandon the truth. The job of media and elected officials is to provide all the information and allow citizens to make their own informed decisions. Media and some elected officials may prefer a socialist society so they can order people what to think, but thank goodness freedom of speech and thought still exist in our constitutional republic.

https://sentinelksmo.org/kdhe-media-...WWJ8w1Lj0VwPxQ

:-)

Nope, no agenda at all at the good ol Sentinel. Just some good ole boys fighting government corruption.:-)
[Reply]
petegz28 10:32 PM 11-21-2020
Originally Posted by stumppy:
:-)

Nope, no agenda at all at the good ol Sentinel. Just some good ole boys fighting government corruption.:-)
So what did they say that was wrong? Oh yea, nothing. :-)

It's not my fault they shoved your bullshit back in your face. Just accept it and move on.
[Reply]
Strongside 12:18 AM 11-22-2020
Went out for a drive through the Gas Lamp in San Diego tonight. Wooooo boy the COVID don’t exist here. Probably 150k people out on Fifth alone.
[Reply]
Bwana 06:56 AM 11-22-2020
It seems the great Rona toilet paper hoard 2.0 is on! TF is wrong with people?




[Reply]
MahomesMagic 08:39 AM 11-22-2020

[Reply]
BigRedChief 08:54 AM 11-22-2020
Originally Posted by Strongside:
Went out for a drive through the Gas Lamp in San Diego tonight. Wooooo boy the COVID don’t exist here. Probably 150k people out on Fifth alone.
Yeah it looks like there are two gigantic holes in our ability to control the virus due to our own citizens behavior.

Rural areas not believing the virus is a hoax and or not that bad as the media says it is.

Young people going out and partying without masks and social distancing. Florida is currently having the most covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths right now than at any other time during these whole shitshow. There are no restrictions, party on.
[Reply]
Baby Lee 08:55 AM 11-22-2020
Originally Posted by Bwana:
It seems the great Rona toilet paper hoard 2.0 is on! TF is wrong with people?
They're worthless, hateful, needy and selfish.

Happy Thanksgiving!!
[Reply]
O.city 08:59 AM 11-22-2020
Head of warp speed is confident we’ll be done with this by April/may.

Thankfulky
[Reply]
loochy 09:02 AM 11-22-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
Head of warp speed is confident we’ll be done with this by April/may.

Thankfulky

So August then?
[Reply]
Demonpenz 09:12 AM 11-22-2020
Two weeks after august
[Reply]
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