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Nzoner's Game Room>Fire Bob Sutton
petegz28 10:12 PM 10-19-2017
That is all.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:45 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by The Pest:
And this is a completely different story if Butker makes either of those two FGs. The defense set up the offense at the end of regulation and got fucked.
And the one that he missed in TN.

Seriously - it was a very similar scenario primed for a very similar outcome. But the improvement on the defense kept us juuuuust enough alive for the improvement under center to matter.

Without EITHER of those improvements, that game is a loss. I don't even know why this is an argument; it's mind-numbing to me that this isn't just a 'well yeah' moment.

This is obvious.
[Reply]
O.city 03:08 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
They stopped the Ravens 6 times out of 10.

I mean it's obviously not the '85 Bears, but for a team clearly built around it's offense, that will play.

If you promised me 6 stops per postseason game - no fewer and no more - I'd take it. And if you promised me a 60% stop rate (that's not even FGs mind you - just a flat out drive with no scores), I'd absolutely take that.

Embrace the reality here folks - this team is going to have to win with its offense. If this defense gets stops on 60% of its possessions, that's doing its job.
Yeah, for sure.

They aren't gonna get another defense like that in the AFC side, other than the Ravens. I don't think. I dont' see Pitt or NE or LA playing defense the way the Ravens just did.
[Reply]
O.city 03:18 PM 12-11-2018
Butker lowkey has some big misses in big spots.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 03:27 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by O.city:
Butker lowkey has some big misses in big spots.
Everyone not named Vinatieri does.

Seriously, if you're relying on your kicker, just presume you have no better than a coinflips chance. These fucking space cadets have never been worth trusting. Even the good ones in the midst of their greatest years have torched championship caliber teams.

Let's not act like Nick Lowery never gacked a big one.

Never trust a goddamn kicker, man. I sat in that stadium and was willing to let Andy off the hook because "well c'mon - it's only a 42 yarder. Who the hell misses a 42 yarder when you have a free play to pick your preferred has?"

And then that friggen bum bagged it. I said it a week ago - if you ever let a kicker beat you, he will. And then ignored it the very next game.

I'm done every trusting a kicker for the rest of my life. I root for !@#$ing Mizzou for crying out loud. How did I EVER think a kicker would do anything other than screw this stuff up.

Dude even tried to miss that damn chippy. He barely squeaked that thing through.

I'm to a point that I think I'd rather draft or pay a friggen punter before a placekicker.

!@#$ing kickers...
[Reply]
JakeF 03:31 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
There's a HUGE difference between "that's not what I said" and that's "not what I meant".

I EXPLICITLY typed "that's not what I said" which implies you're reading something into what I said that I absolutely didn't.

I can't help it that you simply can't comprehend what's being said.
Ok,ok,ok ... it's all my fault because I just don't understand.


You're still confusing. :-)
[Reply]
O.city 03:45 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Everyone not named Vinatieri does.

Seriously, if you're relying on your kicker, just presume you have no better than a coinflips chance. These ****ing space cadets have never been worth trusting. Even the good ones in the midst of their greatest years have torched championship caliber teams.

Let's not act like Nick Lowery never gacked a big one.

Never trust a goddamn kicker, man. I sat in that stadium and was willing to let Andy off the hook because "well c'mon - it's only a 42 yarder. Who the hell misses a 42 yarder when you have a free play to pick your preferred has?"

And then that friggen bum bagged it. I said it a week ago - if you ever let a kicker beat you, he will. And then ignored it the very next game.

I'm done every trusting a kicker for the rest of my life. I root for !@#$ing Mizzou for crying out loud. How did I EVER think a kicker would do anything other than screw this stuff up.

Dude even tried to miss that damn chippy. He barely squeaked that thing through.

I'm to a point that I think I'd rather draft or pay a friggen punter before a placekicker.

!@#$ing kickers...
Yeah, the PAT wasn't exactly right down central.

Dude is just money when it doesn't really matter. Once it comes nutt cutting time, he just janks it.
[Reply]
IowaHawkeyeChief 04:13 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC:
Our offense was not top 5 in the playoffs.
The last 3 years we gave up 0, 27(on the road to the current GOAT), 18, 22 in the playoffs. Our offense should have been good enough to win at least 2 of those 3 losses. The Indy game 4 years ago was due to us dropping like flies with injuries...
[Reply]
Reerun_KC 04:16 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
The last 3 years we gave up 0, 27(on the road to the current GOAT), 18, 22 in the playoffs. Our offense should have been good enough to win at least 2 of those 3 losses. The Indy game 4 years ago was due to us dropping like flies with injuries...
Nope defense fault. Fire Bob.
[Reply]
JakeF 04:32 PM 12-11-2018
https://arrowheadaddict.com/2018/12/...L3IxG9vNS0FrHM

Kansas City Chiefs: Bob Sutton late to make important adjustments
by Travis Steffen 3 hours ago Follow @SteffenNFL

The Kansas City Chiefs pull off a nail-biting victory over the Baltimore Ravens, but Bob Sutton continues to allow offenses to play at will.

The Kansas City Chiefs played in a what felt like playoff game defeating the Baltimore Ravens in overtime on Sunday afternoon. As expected, the Baltimore defense lived up to the hype being the number one defense in football, but it wasn’t their defense that that seemed to cause the most frustration for Chiefs fans. It was our defense that made us miserable.

We all know about the discussion of whether or not Bob Sutton should still have a job in Kansas City. Outside of Patrick Mahomes having an MVP season, it might be the most discussed topic in Kansas City. While most of you won’t argue against firing Sutton this offseason, there is another side to the argument whether it holds any weight or not.

Yes, the poor tackling is not a scheme issue. Inside linebackers getting blocked by tight ends physically shouldn’t happen. We continue to see both of these things happen on a consistent basis. The players causing boneheaded penalties are not part of the scheme although coaching surely has a hand in that issue.

While I have issues with all of these things, they are not my main frustration. The reason I want to pull my hair out on a weekly basis when watching the Chiefs defense is that of Sutton’s inability to scheme to his player’s strengths and waiting too long to adjust in the first place. Facing Baltimore gave us a good visual of that very problem.

Coming into the game on Sunday, Lamar Jackson had played three games total prior. In those three games, Jackson averaged 148 yards passing per game. The rookie quarterback shows promise as a future franchise quarterback but has yet to become a successful pocket passer in today’s league. The Ravens have had their offensive success running the football as they averaged 237 rushing yards in those three previous games.

It takes you back to the playoff game against Tennessee last year when Kansas City was facing a team that struggled to pass the ball effectively and made all of their money running the ball. Following that playoff game, GM Brett Veach decided that he wanted to bolster the defense with players that could better stop the run for the 2018 season. Players like Anthony Hitchens, Xavier Williams, Derrick Nnadi, Breeland Speaks, Dorian O’Daniel, and some others.

While we can sit here and argue whether or not Sutton has enough pieces to execute a successful defense, his scheme is making things even worse. Going into this Ravens game on Sunday, all of the focus should have been revolved around two things which are slowing down the running attack and giving Jackson looks he’s never seen. Instead, Sutton came out in his usual nickel set to start the game.

It wasn’t until the second quarter that we started seeing some bear front defense to help attack the running game. We also saw for most of the first half, the inside linebackers not having one assignment where they were able to attack instead of waiting for the ball to come to them. That’s not all, Sutton also decided to run with three safety sets much of the game including putting Ron Parker down by the line of scrimmage while keeping Daniel Sorensen as the last line of defense.

Which brings me to my point of Sutton being incapable of adjusting his defense to fit his personnel and why the Chiefs must move on from him this offseason. If Justin Houston doesn’t cause a strip sack at the end of regulation, it’s possible that we are talking about a loss. Sutton’s defense relies too heavily on timely turnovers when it lacks the turnover personnel.

We saw this defense look better in the fourth quarter when the changes were finally made. It’s clear that the defense can have success when given the opportunity to run the scheme in which attacks the weakness of the opposing offense. In the fourth quarter, Sutton got creative moving his players around the line of scrimmage including moving around his pass rushers. There were multiple plays where Houston lined up on the interior of the defensive line.

The game plan that should have been in place at the start of the game wasn’t in full effect until the last quarter of regulation. Instead, we saw the typical nonaggressive defense that we continue to see from Sutton during his time in Kansas City. The Chiefs defense is one of the most effective defenses when blitzing, yet we rarely see it. Why?

Kansas City will see a similar style of offense when they travel to Seattle in a couple of weeks which is a team that relies strongly on the running attack. Will Sutton gameplan better for the Seahawks to give this team a better shot at a victory? It’s not about him not making adjustments; it’s about Sutton making them too late.

It’s no secret to anyone that the Chiefs don’t have the best players to have a top defense in the league. I don’t think any of us are expecting that kind of performance from this group of players. We are asking that Sutton adjusts his scheme to get the best performance out of the talent that he does have. The players that were brought in this offseason are not players that generally fit Sutton’s scheme which brings the questions of whether Veach and Sutton are on the same page and whether or not Sutton will be here in 2019?
[Reply]
chiefzilla1501 04:37 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by O.city:
Kpass would kick inside or play DE. He's better suited for a 43 anyway.

I'd do the same with Speaks.

Tag and trade Ford or just let him walk and put Houston at DE.

I don't think Ford would be a terrible fit in the 43 at OLB but I see DJ has already said that
Yeah, a lot of things felt strange about our offseason defensive moves. Reid was never super defensive of Sutton. And it seems odd to basically rebuild your defense around a 67-year old coach who's been shaky the past few seasons. The moves we made sure do have that feel of 34 or 43 interchangable, don't they?
[Reply]
IowaHawkeyeChief 04:45 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by JakeF:
https://arrowheadaddict.com/2018/12/...L3IxG9vNS0FrHM

Kansas City Chiefs: Bob Sutton late to make important adjustments
by Travis Steffen 3 hours ago Follow @SteffenNFL

The Kansas City Chiefs pull off a nail-biting victory over the Baltimore Ravens, but Bob Sutton continues to allow offenses to play at will.

The Kansas City Chiefs played in a what felt like playoff game defeating the Baltimore Ravens in overtime on Sunday afternoon. As expected, the Baltimore defense lived up to the hype being the number one defense in football, but it wasn’t their defense that that seemed to cause the most frustration for Chiefs fans. It was our defense that made us miserable.

We all know about the discussion of whether or not Bob Sutton should still have a job in Kansas City. Outside of Patrick Mahomes having an MVP season, it might be the most discussed topic in Kansas City. While most of you won’t argue against firing Sutton this offseason, there is another side to the argument whether it holds any weight or not.

Yes, the poor tackling is not a scheme issue. Inside linebackers getting blocked by tight ends physically shouldn’t happen. We continue to see both of these things happen on a consistent basis. The players causing boneheaded penalties are not part of the scheme although coaching surely has a hand in that issue.

While I have issues with all of these things, they are not my main frustration. The reason I want to pull my hair out on a weekly basis when watching the Chiefs defense is that of Sutton’s inability to scheme to his player’s strengths and waiting too long to adjust in the first place. Facing Baltimore gave us a good visual of that very problem.

Coming into the game on Sunday, Lamar Jackson had played three games total prior. In those three games, Jackson averaged 148 yards passing per game. The rookie quarterback shows promise as a future franchise quarterback but has yet to become a successful pocket passer in today’s league. The Ravens have had their offensive success running the football as they averaged 237 rushing yards in those three previous games.

It takes you back to the playoff game against Tennessee last year when Kansas City was facing a team that struggled to pass the ball effectively and made all of their money running the ball. Following that playoff game, GM Brett Veach decided that he wanted to bolster the defense with players that could better stop the run for the 2018 season. Players like Anthony Hitchens, Xavier Williams, Derrick Nnadi, Breeland Speaks, Dorian O’Daniel, and some others.

While we can sit here and argue whether or not Sutton has enough pieces to execute a successful defense, his scheme is making things even worse. Going into this Ravens game on Sunday, all of the focus should have been revolved around two things which are slowing down the running attack and giving Jackson looks he’s never seen. Instead, Sutton came out in his usual nickel set to start the game.

It wasn’t until the second quarter that we started seeing some bear front defense to help attack the running game. We also saw for most of the first half, the inside linebackers not having one assignment where they were able to attack instead of waiting for the ball to come to them. That’s not all, Sutton also decided to run with three safety sets much of the game including putting Ron Parker down by the line of scrimmage while keeping Daniel Sorensen as the last line of defense.

Which brings me to my point of Sutton being incapable of adjusting his defense to fit his personnel and why the Chiefs must move on from him this offseason. If Justin Houston doesn’t cause a strip sack at the end of regulation, it’s possible that we are talking about a loss. Sutton’s defense relies too heavily on timely turnovers when it lacks the turnover personnel.

We saw this defense look better in the fourth quarter when the changes were finally made. It’s clear that the defense can have success when given the opportunity to run the scheme in which attacks the weakness of the opposing offense. In the fourth quarter, Sutton got creative moving his players around the line of scrimmage including moving around his pass rushers. There were multiple plays where Houston lined up on the interior of the defensive line.

The game plan that should have been in place at the start of the game wasn’t in full effect until the last quarter of regulation. Instead, we saw the typical nonaggressive defense that we continue to see from Sutton during his time in Kansas City. The Chiefs defense is one of the most effective defenses when blitzing, yet we rarely see it. Why?

Kansas City will see a similar style of offense when they travel to Seattle in a couple of weeks which is a team that relies strongly on the running attack. Will Sutton gameplan better for the Seahawks to give this team a better shot at a victory? It’s not about him not making adjustments; it’s about Sutton making them too late.

It’s no secret to anyone that the Chiefs don’t have the best players to have a top defense in the league. I don’t think any of us are expecting that kind of performance from this group of players. We are asking that Sutton adjusts his scheme to get the best performance out of the talent that he does have. The players that were brought in this offseason are not players that generally fit Sutton’s scheme which brings the questions of whether Veach and Sutton are on the same page and whether or not Sutton will be here in 2019?
He lost all credibility with the bolded sentence above...
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 05:06 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by JakeF:
https://arrowheadaddict.com/2018/12/...L3IxG9vNS0FrHM

{snip}

Instead, Sutton came out in his usual nickel set to start the game.
First of all - look at how much of that I got to delete before he made his first actual substantive point. Jesus Christ - you get paid by the letter, man? If you wanna talk scheme, talk scheme.

Second - THE NICKEL WAS THE RIGHT SET! The Ravens threw it 3 times in 5 plays, gained 13 yards and punted. Sutton got it right there, whether some of you nogs want to actually pay attention to what happened on the field or not.

Originally Posted by :
It wasn’t until the second quarter that we started seeing some bear front defense to help attack the running game. We also saw for most of the first half, the inside linebackers not having one assignment where they were able to attack instead of waiting for the ball to come to them. That’s not all, Sutton also decided to run with three safety sets much of the game including putting Ron Parker down by the line of scrimmage while keeping Daniel Sorensen as the last line of defense.
This is simply wrong. The Chiefs were in a 46 (bear) front on the drive where they got buttfucked down the field. Moreover, the 'much of the game' where the Chiefs were in 3 safety looks? 8 snaps. Of 70 something. They spent roughly 10% of the game in a 3 safety look and those were almost exclusively on 3rd downs.

Right here, I should probably just be done because if a guy spends the first 50% of a hatchet piece merely sharpening an ax, makes a shitty point when he finally gets going and then just makes shit up in the next paragraph...why should I pay any attention to anything else he has to say?

Originally Posted by :
Which brings me to my point of Sutton being incapable of adjusting his defense to fit his personnel and why the Chiefs must move on from him this offseason. If Justin Houston doesn’t cause a strip sack at the end of regulation, it’s possible that we are talking about a loss. Sutton’s defense relies too heavily on timely turnovers when it lacks the turnover personnel.
HOUSTON CAUSED THE STRIP SACK PRECISELY BECAUSE OF AN OVERLOAD BLITZ AND DROP ZONE CALLED BY BOB SUTTON!!!!! You are a fucking hack, man. "Well if Houston doesn't do X, we lose because of Bob Sutton, nevermind a hell of a call by Sutton to lead directly TO X"

Originally Posted by :
We saw this defense look better in the fourth quarter when the changes were finally made. It’s clear that the defense can have success when given the opportunity to run the scheme in which attacks the weakness of the opposing offense. In the fourth quarter, Sutton got creative moving his players around the line of scrimmage including moving around his pass rushers. There were multiple plays where Houston lined up on the interior of the defensive line.

The game plan that should have been in place at the start of the game wasn’t in full effect until the last quarter of regulation. Instead, we saw the typical nonaggressive defense that we continue to see from Sutton during his time in Kansas City. The Chiefs defense is one of the most effective defenses when blitzing, yet we rarely see it. Why?
This is simply incorrect. We didn't see the defense play better in the 4th upon some set of mythical adjustments; it played virtually identically in the 2nd to how it played in the 1st. They had a shit drive in the 1st quarter when they had their base personnel in and were keeping Parker in the box. They did it again to start the 3rd. The Chiefs didn't blitz because you don't blitz a friggen option with QB that can blast around it. Meanwhile the Chiefs brought blitzes on clear passing situations.

This entire article is just rife with nonsensical ramblings and flat fucking factual inaccuracies. This idea that we didn't sell out to stop the run is complete lunacy; we spent a significant majority of that game in our base packages with Parker often sneaking down into the box before getting smoked out of it. Ragland and Hitchens were on the field for 70% of our snaps in that game and the dude wants to act like we were just chilling in Nickel the whole game.

Lord God people - pay attention to what you're parroting. A byline doesn't mean you have a single clue what you're talking about.

Seriously - if that's what you're hanging your hat on, just stay home. I was hoping I'd find something interesting in that bit of schlock but should've known better when I had to read for 5 minutes before he said anything about the game he was criticizing at all.
[Reply]
IowaHawkeyeChief 05:13 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
First of all - look at how much of that I got to delete before he made his first actual substantive point. Jesus Christ - you get paid by the letter, man? If you wanna talk scheme, talk scheme.

Second - THE NICKEL WAS THE RIGHT SET! The Ravens threw it 3 times in 5 plays, gained 13 yards and punted. Sutton got it right there, whether some of you nogs want to actually pay attention to what happened on the field or not.



This is simply wrong. The Chiefs were in a 46 (bear) front on the drive where they got butt****ed down the field. Moreover, the 'much of the game' where the Chiefs were in 3 safety looks? 8 snaps. Of 70 something. They spent roughly 10% of the game in a 3 safety look and those were almost exclusively on 3rd downs.

Right here, I should probably just be done because if a guy spends the first 50% of a hatchet piece merely sharpening an ax, makes a shitty point when he finally gets going and then just makes shit up in the next paragraph...why should I pay any attention to anything else he has to say?



HOUSTON CAUSED THE STRIP SACK PRECISELY BECAUSE OF AN OVERLOAD BLITZ AND DROP ZONE CALLED BY BOB SUTTON!!!!! You are a ****ing hack, man. "Well if Houston doesn't do X, we lose because of Bob Sutton, nevermind a hell of a call by Sutton to lead directly TO X"



This is simply incorrect. We didn't see the defense play better in the 4th upon some set of mythical adjustments; it played virtually identically in the 2nd to how it played in the 1st. They had a shit drive in the 1st quarter when they had their base personnel in and were keeping Parker in the box. They did it again to start the 3rd. The Chiefs didn't blitz because you don't blitz a friggen option with QB that can blast around it. Meanwhile the Chiefs brought blitzes on clear passing situations.

This entire article is just rife with nonsensical ramblings and flat ****ing factual inaccuracies. This idea that we didn't sell out to stop the run is complete lunacy; we spent a significant majority of that game in our base packages with Parker often sneaking down into the box before getting smoked out of it. Ragland and Hitchens were on the field for 70% of our snaps in that game and the dude wants to act like we were just chilling in Nickel the whole game.

Lord God people - pay attention to what you're parroting. A byline doesn't mean you have a single clue what you're talking about.

Seriously - if that's what you're hanging your hat on, just stay home. I was hoping I'd find something interesting in that bit of schlock but should've known better when I had to read for 5 minutes before he said anything about the game he was criticizing at all.
:-) spot on

Come on, we know Sutton schemes to have the linebacker wait to have the ball come to them...:-)


This guy is a no knowledge hack and this article was laughable. Like Sutton or hate him, this article was a debacle and made no sense.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 05:24 PM 12-11-2018
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
:-) spot on

Come on, we know Sutton schemes to have the linebacker wait to have the ball come to them...:-)


This guy is a no knowledge hack and this article was laughable. Like Sutton or hate him, this article was a debacle and made no sense.
"They didn't have one assignment..."

Our ILB's run as straightforward a flow/fill responsibility as any defense you'll see in this league. It's friggen High School football level complicated.

Him acting like an odd-front is going to be able to have ILB's with one pre-assigned gap is just insane. That's not how an odd front works; the DL engages, feels the blocking, forces the OL to commit and the ILB's work behind them to fill when a gap emerges, flow if it doesn't and attack when the RB commits.

That's among the worst take-downs I have ever seen. I'm betting our idiot nephew Jake there read that article this morning, gave it absolutely no thought, decided to steal the 'substance' and drop some knowledge on us poor rubes.

That's what happens when you just regurgitate idiots and have no ability to analyze for yourself. Man that article is trash.
[Reply]
ChiefaRoo 06:12 PM 12-11-2018
FIRE BOB SUTTON THE DAY AFTER THE SEASON IS OVER. Have his Stuff packed in a box and have him walk right to his car.
[Reply]
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