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The Lounge>*** The Definitive Gannon vs. Grbac DEBUNKED Thread ***
htismaqe 01:07 PM 01-02-2014
It's time.

The common urban legend perpetuated amongst Chiefs fans is that we would have won that 1997 playoff game with Rich Gannon because he was clearly so much better than Grbac when in reality, that wasn't at all the case.

Let's start with wins and losses.

Code:
	Wins	Losses	Win %
Grbac	8	2	0.800
Gannon	5	1	0.833
Very similar. Let's look at a sample of passing stats now.

Code:
	Pass TD/Game	INT/Game	Passing YPG	YPA	Rating			
Grbac	1.1		0.6		195		6.2	79.1
Gannon	1.16		0.67		127		6.5	79.8
Again, this cross section points to them being remarkably similar. They ran fewer pass plays with Gannon at the helm so therefore appeared to be slightly more efficient but overall, the offensive output was very similar, regardless of who was under center.

Now, let's look at a couple of key defensive stats, since I think we all agree that the 1997 team was driven largely by the defense. This is where things get interesting.

Code:
	Def YPG	Def TO/Game
Grbac	335.4	1.9
Gannon	254.3	2.5
It's pretty clear what drove the Chiefs winning streak down the stretch - the defense got A LOT better as the season went on. In fact, the defense allowed LESS THAN 300 yards in only 2 of Grbac's starts, whereas that same defense allowed only one team to gain more than 300 yards while Gannon was under center.
[Reply]
beach tribe 11:18 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
Gannon didn't finish the 97' playoff game.
My mistake.
[Reply]
cdcox 11:20 PM 01-02-2014
'95 Playoff game against the Colts. Bono started, Gannon came in and cleaned up and threw for 30 yards. During the regular season, Gannon threw a grand total of 11 passes that year. Grbac was still in SF.

'97 Playoff game against Denver. Grbac started and played the whole game. He wasn't the reason we lost (24-37-260-1-0). That was the season where Gannon saw significant time subbing for an injured Grbac.


People are swirling together all kinds of memories here.
[Reply]
ROYC75 11:23 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by listopencil:
Yeah, I agree. I think blowing so much time calling a play killed the O. That's on the coaches, that's on Marty. In retrospect with perfect 20/20 hindsight you give it to perhaps the best short yardage back in NFL history and you let him make the play.
I just knew this play was coming and then Grbac had that deer in the headlight look as Marty and Co. just stalled, frozen in the moment.

So many things in that game was a determining factor.
[Reply]
Easy 6 11:24 PM 01-02-2014
Our last playoff win, Gannon vs Grbac... I just don't care, no offense meant to anyone, both subjects are apparently a hit... but I just don't care.

Bring me the NOW, give me the FUTURE.
[Reply]
listopencil 11:28 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
There was no ****ing difference between Grbac and Gannon in 1997.
That's just stupid.
[Reply]
beach tribe 11:33 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by scott free:
Our last playoff win, Gannon vs Grbac... I just don't care, no offense meant to anyone, both subjects are apparently a hit... but I just don't care.

Bring me the NOW, give me the FUTURE.
I have somehow blocked the fact that we are >< close to a PO game against INDY.

Can you believe that shit?

Lord God, can we please get some football Grace?

Have we not suffered enough at the hands of these guys?

Is a a Blow out win, hell, a win too much to ask at this point?
[Reply]
beach tribe 11:34 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by listopencil:
That's just stupid.
Unbelievably stupid.
[Reply]
Lex Luthor 11:36 PM 01-02-2014
I think I'm going to bow out of this pointless thread. It makes much more sense to focus on Alex Smith versus the Colts than it does to rehash games from 17 years ago.

But you guys are right. That comment is unbelievably stupid.
[Reply]
Easy 6 11:43 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by beach tribe:
I have somehow blocked the fact that we are >< close to a PO game against INDY.

Can you believe that shit?

Lord God, can we please get some football Grace?

Have we not suffered enough at the hands of these guys?

Is a a Blow out win, hell, a win too much to ask at this point?
All of that ugliness passed under the bridge of time long ago, GIMME THE GOODS GIMME THE NOW.

Sorry for the hijack, i'm out.
[Reply]
beach tribe 11:44 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by scott free:
All of that ugliness passed under the bridge of time long ago, GIMME THE GOODS GIMME THE NOW.

Sorry for the hijack, i'm out.
Right behind you on the same train.
[Reply]
Jiu Jitsu Jon 04:23 AM 01-03-2014
Today:

Gannon: Living in Hyrule castle, commentator for the NFL & Sirius Radio.
Grbac: Assistant QB coach for a high school in Cleveland, Ohio.
[Reply]
Lzen 11:58 AM 01-03-2014
Originally Posted by Brainiac:
The problem with statistics is that they don't tell the whole story. It's true that Grbac had a cannon for an arm and he was clearly a better pure passer than Gannon. But Gannon knew how to improvise, he knew how to scramble when necessary, and he didn't wet his pants under pressure. In other words, he knew how to win.

You have to watch the actual game in order to appreciate and understand these things, because they don't show up in the box score. Anybody who watched the Chiefs that season should have been able to see that. When Gannon was the starter the Chiefs were the hottest team in the NFL. You don't **** with team chemistry in a situation like that. But Marty chose to do it, and the Chiefs wound up losing the only game that really mattered.

Here is why Marty's decision was a was a horrible decision: If Marty had said "I'm going to give the job back to Grbac because I think Grbac gives us the better chance to go win the Super Bowl", that would have been fine.

But he didn't say that. Instead, he said "It is my policy that a starter doesn't lose his job because of an injury".

Period. That was it. THAT was his justification for giving the job back to Grbac, and it's a horrible reason.

Marty didn't think Grbac gave him the best chance to win. Marty was just operating under some misguided sense of loyalty to one player, and he put that ahead of the interests of the team. I loved Marty, but I'll never forgive him for that.
But Marty made Grbac the starter at the beginning of the season because they felt he gave them the best chance to get to the SB.

I went back and watched that game yesterday. I hadn't watched the game since back then. Some observations I have pronounced since then were correct but some were my memory maybe not being as good as I recall.

Grbac actually did fairly well. The Broncos were blitzing the Hell out of them and he managed to make some plays. But there were times that he had no chance because the offensive line couldn't block very well that game. Also, there were a few drops by receivers. That holding call on Manusky was BS. The play where I thought for sure Tony G. should have been awarded a TD was a little closer than I remember.

The biggest thing in that game was that the Chiefs didn't score in the first half. The closest they got was the missed Stoyo FG (2nd attempt due to BS penalty on 1st attempt and make). The Broncos just dinked and dunked their way up and down the field on that defense. The D played much better in the 2nd half but the TOP difference was a glaring thing.
And the drive at the end of the game was ridiculous. They were taking way too much time in between plays. It's as if they had never run a no huddle or hurry up offense. :-)

For anyone who wants to watch, it is here:

[Reply]
Imon Yourside 12:20 PM 01-03-2014
Originally Posted by Lzen:
But Marty made Grbac the starter at the beginning of the season because they felt he gave them the best chance to get to the SB.

I went back and watched that game yesterday. I hadn't watched the game since back then. Some observations I have pronounced since then were correct but some were my memory maybe not being as good as I recall.

Grbac actually did fairly well. The Broncos were blitzing the Hell out of them and he managed to make some plays. But there were times that he had no chance because the offensive line couldn't block very well that game. Also, there were a few drops by receivers. That holding call on Manusky was BS. The play where I thought for sure Tony G. should have been awarded a TD was a little closer than I remember.

The biggest thing in that game was that the Chiefs didn't score in the first half. The closest they got was the missed Stoyo FG (2nd attempt due to BS penalty on 1st attempt and make). The Broncos just dinked and dunked their way up and down the field on that defense. The D played much better in the 2nd half but the TOP difference was a glaring thing.
And the drive at the end of the game was ridiculous. They were taking way too much time in between plays. It's as if they had never run a no huddle or hurry up offense. :-)

For anyone who wants to watch, it is here:
Pretty much my thoughts as well, that holding call was so horrible it really makes you wonder wtf they saw. That call cost us a chance at the winning fg at the end. Grbac was fired up and doing quite well when he had the time to throw.
[Reply]
Anyong Bluth 12:42 PM 01-03-2014
Originally Posted by Lzen:
But Marty made Grbac the starter at the beginning of the season because they felt he gave them the best chance to get to the SB.

I went back and watched that game yesterday. I hadn't watched the game since back then. Some observations I have pronounced since then were correct but some were my memory maybe not being as good as I recall.

Grbac actually did fairly well. The Broncos were blitzing the Hell out of them and he managed to make some plays. But there were times that he had no chance because the offensive line couldn't block very well that game. Also, there were a few drops by receivers. That holding call on Manusky was BS. The play where I thought for sure Tony G. should have been awarded a TD was a little closer than I remember.

The biggest thing in that game was that the Chiefs didn't score in the first half. The closest they got was the missed Stoyo FG (2nd attempt due to BS penalty on 1st attempt and make). The Broncos just dinked and dunked their way up and down the field on that defense. The D played much better in the 2nd half but the TOP difference was a glaring thing.
And the drive at the end of the game was ridiculous. They were taking way too much time in between plays. It's as if they had never run a no huddle or hurry up offense. :-)

For anyone who wants to watch, it is here:
This might be the one game I can't bring myself to ever rewatch.
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 12:52 PM 01-03-2014
Originally Posted by Lzen:
But Marty made Grbac the starter at the beginning of the season because they felt he gave them the best chance to get to the SB.

I went back and watched that game yesterday. I hadn't watched the game since back then. Some observations I have pronounced since then were correct but some were my memory maybe not being as good as I recall.

Grbac actually did fairly well. The Broncos were blitzing the Hell out of them and he managed to make some plays. But there were times that he had no chance because the offensive line couldn't block very well that game. Also, there were a few drops by receivers. That holding call on Manusky was BS. The play where I thought for sure Tony G. should have been awarded a TD was a little closer than I remember.

The biggest thing in that game was that the Chiefs didn't score in the first half. The closest they got was the missed Stoyo FG (2nd attempt due to BS penalty on 1st attempt and make). The Broncos just dinked and dunked their way up and down the field on that defense. The D played much better in the 2nd half but the TOP difference was a glaring thing.
And the drive at the end of the game was ridiculous. They were taking way too much time in between plays. It's as if they had never run a no huddle or hurry up offense. :-)

For anyone who wants to watch, it is here:
That Manusky holding call was weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak sauce.
[Reply]
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