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The Lounge>*** The Definitive Gannon vs. Grbac DEBUNKED Thread ***
htismaqe 01:07 PM 01-02-2014
It's time.

The common urban legend perpetuated amongst Chiefs fans is that we would have won that 1997 playoff game with Rich Gannon because he was clearly so much better than Grbac when in reality, that wasn't at all the case.

Let's start with wins and losses.

Code:
	Wins	Losses	Win %
Grbac	8	2	0.800
Gannon	5	1	0.833
Very similar. Let's look at a sample of passing stats now.

Code:
	Pass TD/Game	INT/Game	Passing YPG	YPA	Rating			
Grbac	1.1		0.6		195		6.2	79.1
Gannon	1.16		0.67		127		6.5	79.8
Again, this cross section points to them being remarkably similar. They ran fewer pass plays with Gannon at the helm so therefore appeared to be slightly more efficient but overall, the offensive output was very similar, regardless of who was under center.

Now, let's look at a couple of key defensive stats, since I think we all agree that the 1997 team was driven largely by the defense. This is where things get interesting.

Code:
	Def YPG	Def TO/Game
Grbac	335.4	1.9
Gannon	254.3	2.5
It's pretty clear what drove the Chiefs winning streak down the stretch - the defense got A LOT better as the season went on. In fact, the defense allowed LESS THAN 300 yards in only 2 of Grbac's starts, whereas that same defense allowed only one team to gain more than 300 yards while Gannon was under center.
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htismaqe 01:50 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
My only wrinkle is that I'm not sure I would start a QB in the playoffs who had not played since the middle of the season.

Obviously, this is different if Aaron Rodgers is coming off of injury and Flynn is your backup. However, the Chiefs had gone on solid run with Gannon (he had even beaten Denver earlier in the season), and seemed to have steady momentum going into the playoffs.
Because the defense was playing at an historic level. It had absolutely nothing at all to do with Gannon.
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htismaqe 01:51 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I was a Grbacker back then as well. Gannon was a poor man's Alex Smith at the time. He was the definition of a game manager. Grbac, OTOH, would push the ball downfield and did his damnedest to make things happen.

The worst thing to ever happen to Elvis Grbac's legacy in KC was Gannon's performance in Oakland. Gannon wouldn't have done that in a million years under Marty Schottenheimer. Gruden's scheme worked perfectly with Gannon's style. People conveniently forget that Gannon played a ton for KC the following year in 1998 and was positively ordinary.

I still think Marty made the right call. As has been noted, the running game sucked eggs, Marty's gameplan was suspect and the Chiefs had some really bad penalties (the unnecessary roughness penalty on the kick return stands out) that cost them the game.
:-)
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Imon Yourside 01:51 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Gonzalez was forced out, which used to be a thing.
Ya it was obvious he was 5 yards in bounds when he caught the ball and was forced out. A tremendous leaping catch...
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Chiefspants 01:52 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Cochise:
Gannon was the definition of a system QB... he was able to dink and dunk to success in Oakland, but it was a perfect situation for him.
Yeah, when Gannon aired it out, you got things like Super Bowl XXXVII.


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FringeNC 01:53 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Their individual performances in the context of the 1997 are the only things relevant to the playoff loss at the end of 1997.

The urban legend isn't about who was the better QB, it was about who gave us the best chance to win at home against Denver that day.
We could go 'round on this -- I just hope Alex Smith's career parallels Rich Gannon's and I think there is a decent chance it can. Some type of QB in the same system.
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Chiefaholic 01:54 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by wazu:
I'm looking forward to your next thread: "Why the kicker that shall go unnamed deserves zero blame".
My dad is definitely what most here would call "True Fans". But THAT game and the "damn barefoot kicker" (Jon Baker) are the only two I recall my dad literally cussing a Chief player on the field. I still remember the ride home him asking why the **** would a guy kick the ball barefoot.

I recall after the game watching the players come out of the tunnel various players from each team would sign autographs for the kids. Jon came from the tunnel and walked over toward the crowd and literally nobody asked for his autograph. he just stood there for a few seconds, then turned around and went back in the tunnel.
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Chiefspants 02:00 PM 01-02-2014
If Grbac would have beaten Gannon at the conclusion of the 99' season (leading the Chiefs in the playoffs), I am guessing the majority of this controversy would have been diffused.
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htismaqe 02:02 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Chiefaholic:
My dad is definitely what most here would call "True Fans". But THAT game and the "damn barefoot kicker" (Jon Baker) are the only two I recall my dad literally cussing a Chief player on the field. I still remember the ride home him asking why the **** would a guy kick the ball barefoot.

I recall after the game watching the players come out of the tunnel various players from each team would sign autographs for the kids. Jon came from the tunnel and walked over toward the crowd and literally nobody asked for his autograph. he just stood there for a few seconds, then turned around and went back in the tunnel.
If only Marty had stuck with the 1st half game plan.

That kicker would have never even had a chance to fuck up the game.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:07 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Chiefaholic:
My dad is definitely what most here would call "True Fans". But THAT game and the "damn barefoot kicker" (Jon Baker) are the only two I recall my dad literally cussing a Chief player on the field. I still remember the ride home him asking why the **** would a guy kick the ball barefoot.

I recall after the game watching the players come out of the tunnel various players from each team would sign autographs for the kids. Jon came from the tunnel and walked over toward the crowd and literally nobody asked for his autograph. he just stood there for a few seconds, then turned around and went back in the tunnel.
Jon Baker killed Derrick Thomas.
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ptlyon 02:47 PM 01-02-2014
Holy shit. Parker lives...
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Lzen 03:25 PM 01-02-2014
I agree with your analysis. However, there is one other thing to consider. Would Gannon have panicked at the end when the crowd was roaring and the helmet mic went out? We will never know but my guess is that he would not have panicked like Grbac did.
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Hammock Parties 03:28 PM 01-02-2014
you would start this bad juju thread 3 days before a ****ing playoff game, Parker...
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MTG#10 03:37 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by Pam Oliver's Forehead:
you would start this bad juju thread 3 days before a ****ing playoff game, Parker...
So did you find your banning by Phobia to ruin your streak funny or did it anger you
[Reply]
HemiEd 03:42 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
So we can safely assume that Gannon sucks too then, right?
Yes, they were both recycled rejects from another team that are not QBs developed by the Chiefs that didn't get the job done. They are just earlier on the list, the long list.
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Three7s 03:43 PM 01-02-2014
Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN:
No the bullshit holding call on our first field goal cost us the game....we would have only needed a 3 to win at the end.
True, though even with the hold, Stoyanovich should've made the kick. Another stupid decision was the fake FG, thanke Marty. And the last stupid Marty decision? Passing on 4th and 1 with 30+ seconds left near the redzone.

Marty was incredibly clueless in the playoffs, despite some bad luck.
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