Originally Posted by GloucesterChief:
Terrible Soviet engineering and training.
Yeah, that much is a given. I'm just curious as to how accurate it is from a scientific standpoint. Shows like this always take some liberties with the actual events or combine characters for dramatic purposes, but I really hope there's no glaring stupid shit with the science. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Frazod:
Yeah, that much is a given. I'm just curious as to how accurate it is from a scientific standpoint. Shows like this always take some liberties with the actual events or combine characters for dramatic purposes, but I really hope there's no glaring stupid shit with the science.
I thought they would start with the events that led to the actual explosion, but given the structure of the narrative it looks like the filmmakers view that as less important than the structures which orchestrated the coverup, which was indicative of the inherent flaw/rot in the Soviet system.
The Cliffs Notes version of what actually happened:
They were going to test the RBMK reactors at low power to see what would happen if they suffered a sudden loss of power (Dyatlov also told them to drop down to a power level far lower than the reactor's design). In the event of a power failure, the diesel generators that would would pump the coolant water would take about 45 seconds to spin up and deliver it to the core to prevent overheating.
The thought was that there would be enough residual steam from the water that it could keep spinning the turbines, and providing enough power to keep the pumps running, and thus, cooling the reactor.
As they slowly reduced power in the reactor they went too far, dropping it to a fraction of the intended power for the test. They couldn't get the power up because of the creation of some of the isotopes in the lower power environment. To compensate, they removed almost all of the control rods and filled the reactor with water, which made the reactor both unstable and highly volatile from a power perspective.
Due to Dyatlov's insistence, they ignored the automatic shutdowns and proceeded with the test. Due to the absence of control rods and the prevalent water, power began to rise uncontrollably. This acted synergistically with another element of the reactor design--the void coefficient, which was the opposite design of Western reactors. As more steam was produced in the core the reactor became even more reactive. This led to a positive feedback loop and an exponential increase in power.
Once the engineers realized that the reactor was getting away from them they panicked and dropped all of the control rods. The problem is that the control rods were graphite tipped, and don't absorb neutrons like the rest of the rod. As they were lowered and displaced the water that hadn't yet boiled off to steam, it created a hot spot in the reactor core, which lead to a massive steam explosion and graphite fire. As the containment vessel itself was also substandard, the reactor blew its top. [Reply]
I sat in on a lecture at grand rounds given by a physician that was sent to Pripyat/Chernobyl in 1990 for epidemiological studies. They brought along their own equipment to test blood, along with their own supplies (syringes, etc). The nurses were Soviet, and kept blowing through the patient's veins instead of getting a clean stick.
Reason why: the US needles were too sharp. They were used to using the same hypodermics over and over again until they had dulled substantially and were pressing too hard. [Reply]
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
I thought you guys might find this interesting.
I sat in on a lecture at grand rounds given by a physician that was sent to Pripyat/Chernobyl in 1990 for epidemiological studies. They brought along their own equipment to test blood, along with their own supplies (syringes, etc). The nurses were Soviet, and kept blowing through the patient's veins instead of getting a clean stick.
Reason why: the US needles were too sharp. They were used to using the same hypodermics over and over again until they had dulled substantially and were pressing too hard.
Watched the first episode last night. Horrifying shit, also they did a good job encapsulating how the Soviet governmental structure was just terrible. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Jesus, that sounds awful.
Watched the first episode last night. Horrifying shit, also they did a good job encapsulating how the Soviet governmental structure was just terrible.
I really hate doing it, but I feel compelled to watch with a jaundiced eye.
In the first episode, the political and rhetorical aspects of the coverup rang true, but I need a lot more empirical evidence before I quite buy into the narrative of the engineers who kept insisting that the first-person observations of those returning from the site were delusional or mistaken.
I'm not rejecting out-of-hand the possibility that the engineers were locked into a mindset that what people reported was so unbelievable that they summarily rejected it time after time, but it rang more of dramatization than knowing insight.
"I looked right into the open core" - Impossible, water sickness, let him rest
"There's graphite on the ground outside the facility" - There's no way for that to be there, . . . so many delusions
"The Roentgen-meter went off the scale." - So it's broken?
"Well, I took another better meter, and calibrated it, and it still went off the scale" - So it's broken too? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I really hate doing it, but I feel compelled to watch with a jaundiced eye.
In the first episode, the political and rhetorical aspects of the coverup rang true, but I need a lot more empirical evidence before I quite buy into the narrative of the engineers who kept insisting that the first-person observations of those returning from the site were delusional or mistaken.
I'm not rejecting out-of-hand the possibility that the engineers were locked into a mindset that what people reported was so unbelievable that they summarily rejected it time after time, but it rang more of dramatization than knowing insight.
Oh I don't have any trouble believing that part at all. I don't need an engineering degree to understand communist fucktardery. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Frazod:
Oh I don't have any trouble believing that part at all. I don't need an engineering degree to understand communist fucktardery.
I still think there is a fundamental difference between a political mind and a scientific mind in a situation like that.
Even though Russia had all sorts of tempermental blindspots imposed by their political rhetoric, and had all sorts of logistical limitations placed on their engineering efforts, they still educated engineers fairly rigorously. And it rings suspect to me that, in the face of first-person observations and data drawn from protocols, the ACTUAL engineers would be flatly incapable of even considering that they were receiving an accurate account.
Politically minded functionaries might put on a face of denial, but this first episode was written more that actual engineers were incapable of processing reality. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I still think there is a fundamental difference between a political mind and a scientific mind in a situation like that.
Even though Russia had all sorts of tempermental blindspots imposed by their political rhetoric, and had all sorts of logistical limitations placed on their engineering efforts, they still educated engineers fairly rigorously. And it rings suspect to me that, in the face of first-person observations and data drawn from protocols, the ACTUAL engineers would be flatly incapable of even considering that they were receiving an accurate account.
Politically minded functionaries might put on a face of denial, but this first episode was written more that actual engineers were incapable of processing reality.
I hear you. I do understand, however, the disbelief that the core could have "blown up" and be "gone", in that sense. I'm no engineer but I have no understanding of how that is possible, and they have focused on it -- including the guy who eventually suicides clearly being brought in to explain how those types of cores work -- that I'm expecting a very good explanation around why that was not thought to be possible, but apparently is what happened (in some sense, anyway).
I'm ALL IN on this series, and partly because of exactly what is perplexing the engineers that are in disbelief.
I read quite a bit about Fukushima Daichi when it happened, but not that much on Chernobyl, so it's very interesting to me to see how it all developed etc., and i also hope they stay true to actual events with limited "dramatic license" bullshit. [Reply]