Buccaneers were the beneficiary of 27 PI calls this 2020 season, Kansas City received 4.
No other team had more than 19 (Miami/Pittsburgh) and 28 teams had less than 15.
Buccaneers were the beneficiary of 12 PI last year with Winston throwing for over 5000 yards...
Brady's Bucs received 15 more PI calls than the same team did last season...and set an NFL record.
Brady had 12 more PI calls than 28 other teams....16 more than 21 teams. He was essentially getting twice the PI calls of nearly every other franchise...and 7 times the amount as Mahomes.
25 teams had 11 or less...
Numbers dont lie...only the media about Brady's "greatness"
Chiefs were called for 2 PIs in one quarter of the SB...they only had their opponents flagged 4 times all year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by GloryDayz: :-) It's all good.
And the courts agreed with the Jets, that it's not a sport, it's entertainment.
So the NFL, like the WWE and WWF, are free to influence outcomes as much as they wish. From a legal perspective.
That's just not true, at all. Like, even a little bit.
If you want to know the truth, and not just accept stories fed to you, feel free to read up on the court decision yourself.
Google the following, it's the top link:
mayer v belichick findlaw 1524532
I'll attempt to provide cliff notes for the reading challenged. I'll wrap them in spoilers tags since I expect this to be pretty long:
Spoiler!
- The court accepted the claims about the alleged behavior by the Patriots to be factual.
- The plaintiff (as in, the guy bringing forth the complaint), alleged that since the Patriots cheated, it violated his contractual expectations and rights as a season ticket holder
- The rules violated were the videography ones, can't have video equipment in team control in unapproved locations
- The NFL sanctioned the Patriots heavily
- The Patriots filmed games against opponents they might face later in the year, including in the playoffs, to capture the opponents signals
- The plaintiff argued that by the Patriots cheating, and the NFL destroying the tapes afterwards, they had violated his rights 8 ways to sunday
- The NFL argued that the only thing the ticket entitled him to was a seat at the game
- The courts found that the plaintiff had failed to state a claim for which relief could be granted
- The contractual right to a seat from which a NFL game could be watched was honored
- They compare tickets for seats to licenses and talk about prior litigation attempts against for example race tracks
- They dive into whether or not patrons can be expelled without cause before eventually saying it doesn't matter since it doesn't apply here
- They talk about a rash of lawsuits from season ticket holders, both football (pro and college), basketball, baseball, and so forth
- They talk about a lawsuit over a NASCAR race where they could only field 6 cars due to circumstances, and whether there was in fact an obligation to a regulation forumla one race. They determine hey, they got a race, even if it wasn't an exciting or well performed one, and it was within the bounds of what a regulation race is.
- They talk about a lawsuit over a boxing match with Tyson where he bit a guys ear off, and whether ticket holders were entitled to see a boxing match performed within the bounds of the rules, and where it was found it was within the bounds of the rules for it to end in disqualification
- They talk about a lawsuit against the Chicago Cubs where they found season ticket holders couldn't get a refund just because the Cubs sucked, and where the remedy would be to become a fan of a better team
- They say here, there was undoubtedly a game between NFL teams, not something crazy like a baseball game being played instead
- They say look, cheating happens all the time, like when teams commit pass interference or delay of game, and the Patriots rule violations are just one example of such infractions
- They say there are tons of other ways teams get signals, many of which they get away with just fine under the rules, like hiring someone from that organization, writing them down, and so forth, as acknowledged by the plaintiff
- They say here, the NFL took action and sanctioned the team in question, in accordance to their rules
- They say the courts have no real interest in taking constant lawsuits from plaintiffs grousing about blown calls and so forth and second guessing the judgement and process of the NFL
- They say there's no realistic standard as far as when a rule violation would rise to the level where action would be permissible vs not
- They reinforce that they don't condone the Patriots behavior
- They recognize that the NFL, like other professional sports, is a multi-billion dollar business and fans may have legitimate concerns with how they're treated
- They recommend the plaintiff speak out against the NFL and boycott them if they want, but say the one thing they can't do is take it to court
Bolded the most important parts where they explain their findings and reasoning. Again though don't take my word for it, read it for yourself. At no time and in no way did they rule the NFL is entertainment not a sport. At no time in no way did they equate it to the WWE or WWF. At no time did they rule the NFL is free to fix games or provide a steered outcome outside the bounds of their rules.
Instead what they ruled is that in the NFL, like all pro sports, cheating happens. They ruled that the NFL had acted appropriately within the bounds of its own structure and rules to deal with the cheating, and had still provided a NFL pro football game to the plaintiff, which is all he was entitled to. They ruled he was not entitled to his team doing well, or all the rules being followed perfectly, or anything beyond a pro football game and a seat from which to watch it, and he had been provided that. Finally they ruled they had no interest in second guessing the NFL's actions or internal structure for dealing with alleged rule violations.
Which, by the way, is in many ways the basis for the later ruling against Brady, where that was really just amended by adding a "whether proven to be real or not".
Beyond the statement that the courts agreed with the Jets (the lawsuit was against the NFL and Belichick not the Jets), the statement the courts agreed it's not a sport (rather they compared it to virtually every sport under the sun), the statement they ruled it was just entertainment (they ruled they're entitled to a real NFL game, but that had happened here), and the statement the NFL is free to influence it as much as they want (again they found the NFL DID have a contractual obligation to a real NFL game, and cited their punishment of rules violations which would otherwise affect the competitive integrity of the game as fulfillment of that obligation), you got the rest of it right. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Giant Octopodes:
That's just not true, at all. Like, even a little bit.
If you want to know the truth, and not just accept stories fed to you, feel free to read up on the court decision yourself.
Google the following, it's the top link:
mayer v belichick findlaw 1524532
I'll attempt to provide cliff notes for the reading challenged. I'll wrap them in spoilers tags since I expect this to be pretty long:
Spoiler!
- The court accepted the claims about the alleged behavior by the Patriots to be factual.
- The plaintiff (as in, the guy bringing forth the complaint), alleged that since the Patriots cheated, it violated his contractual expectations and rights as a season ticket holder
- The rules violated were the videography ones, can't have video equipment in team control in unapproved locations
- The NFL sanctioned the Patriots heavily
- The Patriots filmed games against opponents they might face later in the year, including in the playoffs, to capture the opponents signals
- The plaintiff argued that by the Patriots cheating, and the NFL destroying the tapes afterwards, they had violated his rights 8 ways to sunday
- The NFL argued that the only thing the ticket entitled him to was a seat at the game
- The courts found that the plaintiff had failed to state a claim for which relief could be granted
- The contractual right to a seat from which a NFL game could be watched was honored
- They compare tickets for seats to licenses and talk about prior litigation attempts against for example race tracks
- They dive into whether or not patrons can be expelled without cause before eventually saying it doesn't matter since it doesn't apply here
- They talk about a rash of lawsuits from season ticket holders, both football (pro and college), basketball, baseball, and so forth
- They talk about a lawsuit over a NASCAR race where they could only field 6 cars due to circumstances, and whether there was in fact an obligation to a regulation forumla one race. They determine hey, they got a race, even if it wasn't an exciting or well performed one, and it was within the bounds of what a regulation race is.
- They talk about a lawsuit over a boxing match with Tyson where he bit a guys ear off, and whether ticket holders were entitled to see a boxing match performed within the bounds of the rules, and where it was found it was within the bounds of the rules for it to end in disqualification
- They talk about a lawsuit against the Chicago Cubs where they found season ticket holders couldn't get a refund just because the Cubs sucked, and where the remedy would be to become a fan of a better team
- They say here, there was undoubtedly a game between NFL teams, not something crazy like a baseball game being played instead
- They say look, cheating happens all the time, like when teams commit pass interference or delay of game, and the Patriots rule violations are just one example of such infractions
- They say there are tons of other ways teams get signals, many of which they get away with just fine under the rules, like hiring someone from that organization, writing them down, and so forth, as acknowledged by the plaintiff
- They say here, the NFL took action and sanctioned the team in question, in accordance to their rules
- They say the courts have no real interest in taking constant lawsuits from plaintiffs grousing about blown calls and so forth and second guessing the judgement and process of the NFL
- They say there's no realistic standard as far as when a rule violation would rise to the level where action would be permissible vs not
- They reinforce that they don't condone the Patriots behavior
- They recognize that the NFL, like other professional sports, is a multi-billion dollar business and fans may have legitimate concerns with how they're treated
- They recommend the plaintiff speak out against the NFL and boycott them if they want, but say the one thing they can't do is take it to court
Bolded the most important parts where they explain their findings and reasoning. Again though don't take my word for it, read it for yourself. At no time and in no way did they rule the NFL is entertainment not a sport. At no time in no way did they equate it to the WWE or WWF. At no time did they rule the NFL is free to fix games or provide a steered outcome outside the bounds of their rules.
Instead what they ruled is that in the NFL, like all pro sports, cheating happens. They ruled that the NFL had acted appropriately within the bounds of its own structure and rules to deal with the cheating, and had still provided a NFL pro football game to the plaintiff, which is all he was entitled to. They ruled he was not entitled to his team doing well, or all the rules being followed perfectly, or anything beyond a pro football game and a seat from which to watch it, and he had been provided that. Finally they ruled they had no interest in second guessing the NFL's actions or internal structure for dealing with alleged rule violations.
Which, by the way, is in many ways the basis for the later ruling against Brady, where that was really just amended by adding a "whether proven to be real or not".
Beyond the statement that the courts agreed with the Jets (the lawsuit was against the NFL and Belichick not the Jets), the statement the courts agreed it's not a sport (rather they compared it to virtually every sport under the sun), the statement they ruled it was just entertainment (they ruled they're entitled to a real NFL game, but that had happened here), and the statement the NFL is free to influence it as much as they want (again they found the NFL DID have a contractual obligation to a real NFL game, and cited their punishment of rules violations which would otherwise affect the competitive integrity of the game as fulfillment of that obligation), you got the rest of it right. :-)
Keep your Casino cash, we're all going to need it as the NFL steers/influences outcomes to creates favorable storylines and dramas. [Reply]
Originally Posted by GloryDayz:
Keep your Casino cash, we're all going to need it as the NFL steers/influences outcomes to creates favorable storylines and dramas.
Man I had my money on a response where you link an article about someone saying something differently, trusting that 3rd hand source more than the actual court decision itself and subbing in their judgement for your own.
I see I was wrong to expect so much, instead I get a trite response where you ignore how incredibly wrong you are entirely and repeat your assertions despite direct evidence to the contrary as though truth and fact don't matter, all you need to do is repeat something enough times and it becomes "your truth", which in turn is just as good as the actual truth, right?
Hey you do you buddy. Keep on believing whatever you want, even though it's blatantly and demonstrably incorrect. At least those who choose can research for themselves and learn the actual, factual truth, like the one that coincides with the version of reality we actually live in. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Giant Octopodes:
Man I had my money on a response where you link an article about someone saying something differently, trusting that 3rd hand source more than the actual court decision itself and subbing in their judgement for your own.
I see I was wrong to expect so much, instead I get a trite response where you ignore how incredibly wrong you are entirely and repeat your assertions despite direct evidence to the contrary as though truth and fact don't matter, all you need to do is repeat something enough times and it becomes "your truth", which in turn is just as good as the actual truth, right?
Hey you do you buddy. Keep on believing whatever you want, even though it's blatantly and demonstrably incorrect. At least those who choose can research for themselves and learn the actual, factual truth, like the one that coincides with the version of reality we actually live in.
Well I think you make that terribad 3-word reply a lot longer than you needed. [Reply]
We haven't lost enough to be too down on the team. Its at least how I feel.
I just never realized it's that blatant.
And those texts from the self proclaimed "the deflator", wow. No wonder Brady destroyed his phone.
I'm of the opinion the NFL done all this bs to prove they're the top sport, concussions be damned. Brady getting #7 cemented GOAT status bumping mj. Mission accomplished.
See now I feel like I'm being a crybaby, lol. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Giant Octopodes:
Yep so much invested in it that they suspended him for 4 games for something that didn't happen and spent a full year dragging his name through the mud. They argued in court it didn't matter there was no evidence of wrongdoing, they can do whatever they want to whomever they want and need no evidence or justification for doing so. There's documentaries out showing how they deliberately leaked false info to the media to spread a false narrative before and during the events in question. But yep, they sure do love Brady, and him continuing to win is such a good look that definitely increases viewer interest and sales, just look at the merchandise and ratings trends...
Originally Posted by BlackOp:
Buccaneers were the beneficiary of 27 PI calls this 2020 season, Kansas City received 4.
No other team had more than 19 (Miami/Pittsburgh) and 28 teams had less than 15.
Buccaneers were the beneficiary of 12 PI last year with Winston throwing for over 5000 yards...
Brady's Bucs received 15 more PI calls than the same team did last season...and set an NFL record.
Brady had 12 more PI calls than 28 other teams....16 more than 21 teams. He was essentially getting twice the PI calls of nearly every other franchise...and 7 times the amount as Mahomes.
25 teams had 11 or less...
Numbers dont lie...only the media about Brady's "greatness"
Chiefs were called for 2 PIs in one quarter of the SB...they only had their opponents flagged 4 times all year.
Did you compile these stats on your own using NFLPENALTIES.COM of something? Your stats are being reposted around different sports forums so I was growing more curious where the numbers came from. [Reply]
Originally Posted by bowener:
Did you compile these stats on your own using NFLPENALTIES.COM of something? Your stats are being reposted around different sports forums so I was growing more curious where the numbers came from.
Yes...look at the top right where it says "beneficiary"
The use of PI calls are the most devastating penalty in the sport.
Brady's Bucs didn't just break the record...they demolished it.
(I posted the following earlier in this thread)
There was only one team, going back a decade, that even had 20.
That team was the fluke 12-4 2016 Raiders...it was their only winning season in 17 years. To illustrate how impactful the gratuitous use of PI is... [Reply]
