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The Marty Lounge>Veach's '21 Offseason Plan to Keep Us Thriving: Let's speculate
Dante84 10:03 AM 02-08-2021
In order to prevent us wasting precious years of Patrick Mahomes' career, Veach needs to work some magic this offseason. What's your advice for him?
[Reply]
Hoover 03:28 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Sure, but youíre already probably adding guys like Niang and LDT to the OL.

On the other hand, youíre likely losing Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/KPass.

That context closes that gap a little.

And itís also about positional value with DE. A pass rusher that could add 8-10 sacks opposite of Clark would put this defense in elite territory.
LDT has one year on his contract, and it's not like we are going to give him another contract. Hell, you guys have wanted to cut his ass for years to save like 3M in cap space.

So you already have to plan for his departure.

Yes, Niang is part of the rebuild, but he and Allegretti don't fill the need at LT or Center. We can get by at a one guard spot.
[Reply]
O.city 03:29 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
This team isnít adding 4 rookie offensive linemen to the mix and succeeding. I donít see Reid or Veach doing that.
Need a couple vets

I dunno where the money will come from but Iíd like Scherff and Kelce
[Reply]
staylor26 03:33 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
Niang is an unknown commodity in the NFL coming off major surgery and LDT wasn't exactly a bastion of health before he left to fight the pandemic.

Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/Kpass were JAG level guys at best this year. I don't think it'll be too hard to find replacements for them.
Niang is an “unknown commodity” in the same way that any draft pick would be. You realize that, right? He’s still a 1st round talent that I’m sure they’re expecting to start somewhere next year. The injury shouldn’t be an issue now that he’s had an entire year to get healthy. It appears he’s working out and healthy.

LDT isn’t a sure thing in terms of health, but he should be healthy right now and he’s still an instant upgrade at RG if he returns, and he’ll obviously be penciled in as a starter if that’s the case.

Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/Kpass aren’t just bodies that need to be replaced with more bodies. We need upgrades at both positions along with possibly losing two guys at both. They were already needs to being with. Losing those guys just makes them even moreso a need.
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duncan_idaho 03:33 PM 02-09-2021
They have to make some investments in the OL. I think they will.

This draft lines up perfectly with what the Chiefs need.

Itís a great WR draft. Itís a great OT draft. Itís a pretty normal DE class.

That just makes me feel like 2 of the first 3 picks will come from WR/OT for sure, and honestly if they went WR-OT-C with their first three picks Id probably think that was pretty solid.

Theyíd have to spend whatever FA money they could scrape up on DE in that scenario, but I could live with that.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:35 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Sure, but youíre already probably adding guys like Niang and LDT to the OL.

On the other hand, youíre likely losing Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/KPass.

That context closes that gap a little.

And itís also about positional value with DE. A pass rusher that could add 8-10 sacks opposite of Clark would put this defense in elite territory.
I agree with you.

On one hand, if you add a real pass rusher at DE, your front four could well be dominant. To do that, you're probably going to have to do it in round 1.

I have high hopes for Niang; he's a first round talent that fell to the third due to a hip injury. My theory is that Veach was in on the covid opt-out knowing Niang wasn't 100% yet and basically arranged a red-shirt year. I have no proof of that, just my conspiracy theory. But, we don't know what he is and how soon he will be ready to play and play well.

LDT is a decent player, but I would describe him as an average to above average NFL OG. That's cool if you've got talent around him, he can hold his own.

Watkins I could give a shit about, he never plays anyway. Robinson wouldn't be expensive to retain, but I'd just as soon roll with Pringle anyway, and he'll be even less expensive. But you need to start drafting WR's, for sure. I don't see a huge drop-off in this draft between say, a Terrance Marshall and an Amari Rodgers as far as how they would fit in here. Rodgers is probably a 3rd-4th.

Most importantly, this is a really good OT draft. Judging by draft profiles and scouting reports, for example, Fisher might go late in this first in this draft, where in 2013 he was first overall. I like Fisher, he's a good player, but what a shitty year to pick first that was.

I like Mayfield a lot, but we'd have to take him at #31. Eichenberg, Radunz, or Little are all solid LT's but may fall all the way to #64.

Just my thoughts.
[Reply]
staylor26 03:35 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Hoover:
LDT has one year on his contract, and it's not like we are going to give him another contract. Hell, you guys have wanted to cut his ass for years to save like 3M in cap space.

So you already have to plan for his departure.

Yes, Niang is part of the rebuild, but he and Allegretti don't fill the need at LT or Center. We can get by at a one guard spot.
It’s a number game. We aren’t going to replace all 5 starters with new guys in one offseason.

If LDT wants to come back, I’d assume he will be because we’re already likely losing Reiter and I’m 99% sure they don’t want Wylie starting again next year.

I didn’t even want LDT back earlier in the season, but with all of the injuries and unknowns, you almost have to bring him back if you can.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:39 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Itís a number game. We arenít going to replace all 5 starters with new guys in one offseason.

If LDT wants to come back, Iíd assume he will be because weíre already likely losing Reiter and Iím 99% sure they donít want Wylie starting again next year.

I didnít even want LDT back late in the season, but with all of the injuries and unknowns, you almost have to bring him back if you can.
Well, by definition, what you're saying is-We'd have 5 new starters compared to September 2020.

I think you're right, I think we have no choice.

Alegretti and LDT make a fair OG pair as long as you upgrade C.
[Reply]
OKchiefs 03:40 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Imagine thinking Nick Bosa having 10+ pressures is the same as Barrett doing it....

Bosa is going to get his. He was the best defensive player on the field in that game.
Aaron Donald led the NFL with 98 total pressures and TJ Watt was second with 75, per PFF. That's roughly 6 a game for AD and 5 a game for Watt. You don't see how 10+ pressures in a game is excessive? There have been plenty of dominant pass rushers in the Super Bowl, nobody in recent memory has put up the same amount as Bosa and Barrett.

Again, I'm not bitching. I'm asking, if a dominant DE is capable of playing out of their minds even when going up against a pro bowl left tackle in Fisher, why are we not doing more to help the OL? We went without a touchdown against Tampa. Our offense was held in check for 3 quarters against SF. The KC offense clearly hasn't been nearly as explosive in the Super Bowl outside of the 4th qtr last year.

I don't recall the exact stat, but something was posted in regard to KC not giving extra help to the OL despite all the injuries. You really don't see something off about that? In 8 quarters of Super Bowl football we've seen maybe 1 quarter where the offense was dominant.

I can't emphasize enough, I'm not bitching. I'd sincerely like to know an answer as to what is different about our offensive performance between the Super Bowl and every other game where we do look dominant. Are our we just getting outcoached?
[Reply]
staylor26 03:43 PM 02-09-2021
Bosa played his fucking ass off because it was the SB, and Fisher struggles with power. It’s really fucking simple dude, and not a sign of some major issue with our “OL scheme”.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:45 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
Aaron Donald led the NFL with 98 total pressures and TJ Watt was second with 75, per PFF. That's roughly 6 a game for AD and 5 a game for Watt. You don't see how 10+ pressures in a game is excessive? There have been plenty of dominant pass rushers in the Super Bowl, nobody in recent memory has put up the same amount as Bosa and Barrett.

Again, I'm not bitching. I'm asking, if a dominant DE is capable of playing out of their minds even when going up against a pro bowl left tackle in Fisher, why are we not doing more to help the OL? We went without a touchdown against Tampa. Our offense was held in check for 3 quarters against SF. The KC offense clearly hasn't been nearly as explosive in the Super Bowl outside of the 4th qtr last year.

I don't recall the exact stat, but something was posted in regard to KC not giving extra help to the OL despite all the injuries. You really don't see something off about that? In 8 quarters of Super Bowl football we've seen maybe 1 quarter where the offense was dominant.

I can't emphasize enough, I'm not bitching. I'd sincerely like to know an answer as to what is different about our offensive performance between the Super Bowl and every other game where we do look dominant. Are our we just getting outcoached?
I've said it before, but I'll say it again here since it's the answer to your question.

The answer to the question of "how do you beat the Chiefs" is this:

Pressure with 4, cover with 7. If you can get to Mahomes with 4 before his weapons can clear coverage, you can win.

We can't run the ball, so you don't have to respect that really. So if you have a dominant front 4, you can shut us down. Because our line sucks. Even with Fisher and Schwartz last year, it worked for 3 quarters until SF's line started to wear out.

We've got maybe 3 more seasons of peak Hill with peak Kelce and now CEH. We need to build a line good enough to keep defenses honest and Mahomes upright long enough to get it to them.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:47 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Bosa played his ****ing ass off because it was the SB, and Fisher struggles with power. Itís really ****ing simple dude, and not a sign of some major issue with our ďOL schemeĒ.
Bosa's a great player, and great players always get theirs.

We've been inadequate on the line since Morse left, to be honest.

And with no Fisher and no Schwartz we got whooped.

Talent wins.
[Reply]
Hoover 03:52 PM 02-09-2021
I'm really just interested to see what Veach does with the offensive line. A good Vet FA anywhere along the line would help a ton, but that's not the easiest thing to do with the cap situation.

Can we swap LDT for Mitch Morse? LDT would be closer to work LOL
[Reply]
TEX 04:03 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I've said it before, but I'll say it again here since it's the answer to your question.

The answer to the question of "how do you beat the Chiefs" is this:

Pressure with 4, cover with 7. If you can get to Mahomes with 4 before his weapons can clear coverage, you can win.

We can't run the ball, so you don't have to respect that really. So if you have a dominant front 4, you can shut us down. Because our line sucks. Even with Fisher and Schwartz last year, it worked for 3 quarters until SF's line started to wear out.

We've got maybe 3 more seasons of peak Hill with peak Kelce and now CEH. We need to build a line good enough to keep defenses honest and Mahomes upright long enough to get it to them.
Exactly.
[Reply]
htismaqe 06:15 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Sure, but youíre already probably adding guys like Niang and LDT to the OL.

On the other hand, youíre likely losing Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/KPass.

That context closes that gap a little.

And itís also about positional value with DE. A pass rusher that could add 8-10 sacks opposite of Clark would put this defense in elite territory.
It's all about positional value period. You don't just draft for need, that's how you end up wasting draft picks and still sucking.
[Reply]
staylor26 06:33 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
It's all about positional value period. You don't just draft for need, that's how you end up wasting draft picks and still sucking.
Yea I agree, but we were talking specifically about ranking needs.
[Reply]
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