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The Lounge>Per Verderame: Veach would prefer to keep Chris Jones
RunKC 09:27 AM 02-10-2020
Interesting article here. Not a huge fan of Verderame but he was at the Super Bowl and he does go to the combine. I think he gets some tips, albeit from Terez (who is a nice guy).

Here is the most interesting part of the article. 2021 and 2022 would be extremely difficult to manage.

Originally Posted by :

What the Chiefs can do with their money

Looking at Kansas City’s cap situation, it can release wide receiver Sammy Watkins and linebacker Damien Wilson, clearing out $18.5 million in space. Combined with rollover money and already existing room, that’s enough cash for Veach to tag Jones, re-sign a few other pending free agents and extend Patrick Mahomes.

Speaking of Mahomes, the 24-year-old quarterback is likely to soon be the highest-paid player in the league. This is another important factor to consider.

Let’s play GM for a moment and do the following to the Chiefs’ roster:

•Cut Sammy Watkins
•Cut Damien Wilson
•Cut Cam Erving

Extend Patrick Mahomes on a five-year, $200 million deal
Use franchise tag on Chris Jones
Allow $10 million for free agents and draft picks
Keep $2 million in emergency space
Using the Jared Goff and Carson Wentz extension structures as a template, Mahomes’ cap hit would approximately be $11 million this season. Factor in Jones’ tag and the $12 million outlined above, and Kansas City is laying out $35 million.

The Chiefs could do it. But while it’s palatable for 2020, what about 2021 and beyond?

If Kansas City gave Mahomes the aforementioned extension, his cap number would be enormous in 2021, potentially the full $40 million figure. If the Chiefs also signed Jones to Clark’s exact deal, the cap number would be $22.7 million in 2021.

If we account for a slight rise in the NFL salary cap both this year and next, it’ll be around $210 million. Under these parameters, Kansas City would be looking at the following cap hits in 2021:

Patrick Mahomes ($40M)
Frank Clark ($24.2M)
Chris Jones ($22.7)
Tyrann Mathieu ($19.7M)
Tyreek Hill ($15.7M)
In total, the top five players on the Chiefs would be earning $122.3 million, or 58 percent of the salary cap.

Going into this offseason with a projected $200 million salary cap, only one team is currently allocating more than 50 percent to their top five players: the Los Angeles Rams at 54 percent.

Kansas City can always create cap space with extensions and releases, but tying up such a large chunk of money in five players is dangerous. The Chiefs would be largely unable to sign any other meaningful free agents for a few years — including their own — while being completely reliant on the draft to restock departing talent.

In his three years at the helm, Veach has proven to believe in acquiring top-shelf talent and filling in around them with low-cost, high-upside veteran deals (see: Damien Williams, Stefen Wisniewski, Mike Pennel) and rookie deals.

Jones certainly fits Veach’s profile. The question is if he fits into Kansas City’s payroll.
https://fansided.com/2020/02/10/chri...mpression=true
[Reply]
tk13 12:35 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by comochiefsfan:
Here’s the thing with Mahomes, and correct me if i’m wrong.

Wouldn’t he stand to make A LOT more money over the long run if he takes a team friendly deal in order to keep winning championships?

If he becomes just another highly paid QB on a decent team, sure he’ll get endorsement opportunities like Rodgers. But no one is gonna shell out ridiculous money to get a guy like that to pitch their product.

However, if he is always in the Super Bowl and is the face of the NFL for years to come, he’s gonna have the marketing opportunities POURING in consistently.

Not to mention post career endorsements, speaking engagements, whatever he wants to do.

I’m sure it’s flawed thinking but it seems like just making sure his team is a winner is worth WAY more in the long term than just taking a few million more on his contract every season.
He's already won a Super Bowl. That ship is sailed, he's a household name now. Worst case he's firmly in that Marino, Rodgers, Farve camp, and they have no problem getting endorsements.

I just don't see any way Mahomes doesn't get the biggest contract ever. Everyone compares to Brady but he only started taking discounts later, his first big contract wasn't a discount.
[Reply]
notorious 12:36 PM 02-10-2020
If they separate the QB from the cap it will be a grave mistake for the NFL.


It will also benefit us tremendously.
[Reply]
Chiefspants 12:43 PM 02-10-2020
I suppose I should have figured that when the Chiefs did finally land their Franchise QB MVP and face of the NFL, that throngs of midwestern fans would hope to go cheap with him.

You pay Mahomes 40m a year if he wants 40m a year.

Sure, there’s always examples like GB and Seattle, but I’d vastly prefer to trust our HOF coach in those scenarios than Pete and Mike McCarthy. Savvy franchises trade great pieces when they’re at a premium to reload on the draft and stay at a contending level.
[Reply]
The Franchise 12:45 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
I suppose I should have figured that when the Chiefs did finally land their Franchise QB MVP and face of the NFL, that throngs of midwestern fans would hope to go cheap with him.

You pay Mahomes 40m a year if he wants 40m a year.

Sure, there’s always examples like GB and Seattle, but I’d vastly prefer to trust our HOF coach in those scenarios than Pete and Mike McCarthy. Savvy franchises trade great pieces when they’re at a premium to reload on the draft and stay at a contending level.
Who in here said anything other than what you just said?
[Reply]
RunKC 12:47 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
The Giants have their own DT to pay in Leonard Williams.
Yeah but Leonard Williams sucks and their GM has always been a fan of strong DL’s
[Reply]
Chiefspants 12:48 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Who in here said anything other than what you just said?
Mahomes taking a "hometown discount" has been a constant theme of threads about the topic on here and on discussions about the Chiefs everywhere. A lot of people have been pointing to examples like Seattle, Green Bay, the Saints, etc, as to why Mahomes needs to consider 30m-35m a year, and I just don't understand that notion.

We finally have the face of the NFL on our franchise, it's the best possible situation to be in. There is not a competent GM in the NFL who wouldn't pay top dollar to have Mahomes on their roster and then be tasked with figuring the rest out from there.
[Reply]
Hoover 12:50 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by notorious:
If they separate the QB from the cap it will be a grave mistake for the NFL.


It will also benefit us tremendously.
I think what the NFL needs to do is give each team a $25M per year exemption to the Salary Cap that can only be used for the QB position.

So yeah, the Chiefs can use all of it ease the pain of paying a $40M a year contract. A rebuilding team can use it to pay for their entire roster of QBs. It would help everyone equally.
[Reply]
JohnnyHammersticks 12:58 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by Hoover:
I have always understood that the Chiefs are able to keep Jones, but it's VERY limiting.

Look at it this way:

If you trade Jones you can solve a lot of problems.
If you sign him you create a huge problem that limits this team in the future.

Once traded Jones gives Veach the draft capital he needs to prepare this team for the long haul. With an extra first rounder the Chiefs could then afford to trade out of the first round with one of their picks. The extra pick gained in a trade would also allow Veach the flexibility to move up in the late first round if Veach feels its necessary.

Trading Jones just makes too much sense if you are sitting in the GMs chair as far as I see it.

And Veach is smart to say he wants to keep Jones. Never devalue your asset.
And if we keep Jones it gives us one of the top 2 or 3 D-linemen on planet earth.

You kinda skipped right past that part...
[Reply]
Hoover 01:02 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks:
And if we keep Jones it gives us one of the top 2 or 3 D-linemen on planet earth.

You kinda skipped right past that part...
Sure, but it costs you.

I love his pass rush, but I'm not sure its wise to saddle the team and limit the moves that we can make for just one player.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 01:47 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by Hoover:
Sure, but it costs you.

I love his pass rush, but I'm not sure its wise to saddle the team and limit the moves that we can make for just one player.
It's a tough call. If you're confident you can structure things reasonably to work within the cap the next few years and not be crippled due to the changes in the cap, obviously you keep him.

But yeah, the ability to add another first-round pick AND maybe another 3-4 round pick AND free up that money to use on other players is tough to weight against.

Which team is better? 2020 Chiefs with Chris Jones, and Emmanuel Ogbah/Darron Lee buy-low types at LB and G/C or 2020 Chiefs with Yetur Gross-Matos or a similar end of 1st pass rusher, Joe Schobert at ILB/WLB, and Graham Glasgow at G/C?
[Reply]
RaidersOftheCellar 01:47 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Jones & Sammy are both goners unless the new CBA gives a bailout on QB salaries (separate cap).
That's how I look at it. Just wouldn't be a wise investment unless the CBA gives us more room. Fortunately, it sounds like that's a good possibility.
[Reply]
comochiefsfan 02:52 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by notorious:
If they separate the QB from the cap it will be a grave mistake for the NFL.


It will also benefit us tremendously.
I’ve got mixed feelings about it.

I do hate that the current cap situation somewhat punishes teams for drafting well and in particular drafting good QBs.

At the same time though, the cap is what’s keeping the NFL from becoming the NBA, where big money players simply choose who they want to buddy up with, and MLB where the richest teams simply buy all the good players.

So while it would help the Chiefs currently, I think it would be a bad move from a league wide perspective and might be detrimental to us down the road once we go back to being an unappealing small market team without a generational quarterback that everyone wants to play with.
[Reply]
comochiefsfan 02:55 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
Mahomes taking a "hometown discount" has been a constant theme of threads about the topic on here and on discussions about the Chiefs everywhere. A lot of people have been pointing to examples like Seattle, Green Bay, the Saints, etc, as to why Mahomes needs to consider 30m-35m a year, and I just don't understand that notion.

We finally have the face of the NFL on our franchise, it's the best possible situation to be in. There is not a competent GM in the NFL who wouldn't pay top dollar to have Mahomes on their roster and then be tasked with figuring the rest out from there.
So if Mahomes says, “Brett I want to take less money to help the team”, then Veach should say “No Pat, I insist on us making it harder to build a roster around you.”?

I don’t get your logic there. Why wouldn’t you let Mahomes take a pay cut if he’s willing to?
[Reply]
InChiefsHeaven 02:58 PM 02-10-2020
How come they can't give him a big ass signing bonus to offset the cap numbers? Can't they give him a bunch of ridiculously easy incentives to offset the cap? I don't know shit about this stuff, but I thought that was the way to "cheat" the cap...
[Reply]
Bill Brasky 03:08 PM 02-10-2020
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks:
And if we keep Jones it gives us one of the top 2 or 3 D-linemen on planet earth.

You kinda skipped right past that part...
And that doesn't really matter when you have to blow up your offensive line, cut your best linebacker, kicker, and WR2. Jones isn't worth it.

I'm glad Veach is playing the game to keep his value as high as possible, but tag and trade is the only thing that makes sense. We need 2 picks for him.
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