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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Defensive End
Direckshun 04:44 PM 11-05-2018
So, our defensive end position is at risk of becoming a trainwreck this upcoming offseason.

Here's the run down:

Chris Jones is under contract. That's it.

We only have two other DEs on the team. Allen Bailey, and Jarvis Jenkins. (We do play Xavier Williams there some.)

Assuming we are not calling Xavier Williams a defensive end, what exactly do we do?

Do we let Allen Bailey walk? Do we let them both walk?

For the record, we do have a rookie -- Joey Ivey -- on the practice squad, who will also be a FA.

Fortunately, the free agency for 3-4 DEs is jacked.

Here is a list of the free agent 3-4 DEs: https://overthecap.com/free-agency

According to Bleacher Report (I know...), these 2019 free agents were ranked as the 40 best DEs in the NFL in 2017.

(Chris Jones was #3, by the way.)
Shelby Harris (Broncos) was #4 -- restricted free agent
Allen Bailey was #13
Ethan Westbrooks (Rams) was #14
Carl Davis (Ravens) was #19
Tyson Alualu (Steelers) was #20
Henry Anderson (Colts) was #22 -- keep an eye out for former Colts, due to the Ballard-Veach connection
Zach Kerr (Broncos) was #24
Joel Heath (Texans) was #25
Josh Mauro (Giants) was #26
Brent Urban (Ravens) was #27
Morgan Fox (Rams) was #28
Muhammad Wilkerson (Jets) was #30 -- and has the Sutton connection from the Jets
Jarvis Jenkins was #38.

It's also a defense-rich draft.

Thoughts?
[Reply]
Direckshun 04:49 PM 11-05-2018
My opinion:

You let Allen Bailey walk, and you re-sign Jarvis Jenkins.

You make a run at Henry Anderson, Ethan Westbrooks, or Carl Davis. I wouldn't say no to Muhammad Wilkerson or Zach Kerr, either.

You also draft a DE in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round.

DE: Chris Jones, Henry Anderson, Jarvis Jenkins, high round draft pick
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Hog's Gone Fishin 05:15 PM 11-05-2018
Thoughts?

I'm goin fishin tomorrow
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The Pest 08:29 AM 11-06-2018
Throw a contract at Wilkerson and draft a couple.
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DJ's left nut 11:29 AM 11-07-2018
Move to a 4-3.

Jones - Williams - Nnadi - Speaks

Houston/Ford - Hitchens - DoD

You could also try Houston AND Ford with DoD as a pure sub-package player if you think you have the resources to bring them both back.

The roster makes a lot more sense if the long-term plan is a 4-3.
[Reply]
The Pest 11:33 AM 11-07-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Move to a 4-3.

Jones - Williams - Nnadi - Speaks

Houston/Ford - Hitchens - DoD

You could also try Houston AND Ford with DoD as a pure sub-package player if you think you have the resources to bring them both back.

The roster makes a lot more sense if the long-term plan is a 4-3.
So the question is......is that Veach has been doing this entire time? Drafting players for a move to the 4-3. Obviously, I assume, that would mean that Sutton is gone after this season.

The fuck do you do with KPass? Try and trade him?
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:42 PM 11-07-2018
Originally Posted by The Pest:
So the question is......is that Veach has been doing this entire time? Drafting players for a move to the 4-3. Obviously, I assume, that would mean that Sutton is gone after this season.

The fuck do you do with KPass? Try and trade him?
Rotational DE. Sure, he'd be a little easier to get underneath, but he also has those long arms that can keep the OL away from his body. You just send him out there for more obvious passing downs, pull Nnadi and push Jones inside and use TK the way the Panthers used Peppers back when he'd have his hand on the ground. Hell, you could probably slide Speaks in as well and put Houston's hand down.

Look at this sex right here:

Houston - Jones - Speaks - K-Pass

Ford - DoD

This team just works so much better as a 4-3. It can't really be an accident, can it?
[Reply]
The Pest 01:18 PM 11-07-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Rotational DE. Sure, he'd be a little easier to get underneath, but he also has those long arms that can keep the OL away from his body. You just send him out there for more obvious passing downs, pull Nnadi and push Jones inside and use TK the way the Panthers used Peppers back when he'd have his hand on the ground. Hell, you could probably slide Speaks in as well and put Houston's hand down.

Look at this sex right here:

Houston - Jones - Speaks - K-Pass

Ford - DoD

This team just works so much better as a 4-3. It can't really be an accident, can it?
I'm honestly hoping it's not an accident. I fucking hate the 3-4.
[Reply]
Demonpenz 01:41 PM 11-08-2018
3 4 is sweet if you have a one in a life time Nose tackle. you got to be strong inside to out on that scheme. Chiefs get crushed in the run game because up the middle they are slow and >SOFT ..raglan's right behind me isn't he.
[Reply]
Flying High D 08:53 PM 11-08-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Rotational DE. Sure, he'd be a little easier to get underneath, but he also has those long arms that can keep the OL away from his body. You just send him out there for more obvious passing downs, pull Nnadi and push Jones inside and use TK the way the Panthers used Peppers back when he'd have his hand on the ground. Hell, you could probably slide Speaks in as well and put Houston's hand down.

Look at this sex right here:

Houston - Jones - Speaks - K-Pass

Ford - DoD

This team just works so much better as a 4-3. It can't really be an accident, can it?
Is it a orgy?
[Reply]
kccrow 10:23 PM 11-08-2018
Absolutely need to address the front multiple times, but it really depends on the scheme KC is running going into 2019.

If you run a 4-3, you're probably looking at Houston and KPass being your only real 4-3 ends. I'd think that if they went with a 4-3 under similar to Seattle, then you'd have Ford play the LEO and then KPass would be depth.

If you run a 3-4 then you have to replace Bailey and should replace Jenkins on top of having to add more depth at OLB.

I think Speaks, while he's shown growth on the edge, really needs to move inside in either scheme as a 3-tech type. And honestly, I think he makes you a strong case for a switch to a 4-3. Jones and Speaks rotate at UT while Nnadi and Williams rotate at NT and then on passing downs, you could put Jones and Speaks together. You then are just looking to fill the edge which is pretty loaded in both FA and the draft. You're going to have to address the edge regardless of scheme, but you wouldn't also have to address your tackle/3-4 ends in a switch.

I also believe the team has a solid group of options at LB to move to a 4-3 with DOD and Niemann (possibly) outside and Hitchens inside. I think you have to work to bolster that group with a FA and a draft pick, but you probably need to do that anyhow because Ragland is shit and Smith is shit and a FA.
[Reply]
Demonpenz 12:46 AM 11-09-2018
The good thing about speaks is it looks like he can Play football. Like a real football player he just can play multiple spots because he can play
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DJ's left nut 05:06 PM 11-09-2018
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Absolutely need to address the front multiple times, but it really depends on the scheme KC is running going into 2019.

If you run a 4-3, you're probably looking at Houston and KPass being your only real 4-3 ends. I'd think that if they went with a 4-3 under similar to Seattle, then you'd have Ford play the LEO and then KPass would be depth.

If you run a 3-4 then you have to replace Bailey and should replace Jenkins on top of having to add more depth at OLB.

I think Speaks, while he's shown growth on the edge, really needs to move inside in either scheme as a 3-tech type. And honestly, I think he makes you a strong case for a switch to a 4-3. Jones and Speaks rotate at UT while Nnadi and Williams rotate at NT and then on passing downs, you could put Jones and Speaks together. You then are just looking to fill the edge which is pretty loaded in both FA and the draft. You're going to have to address the edge regardless of scheme, but you wouldn't also have to address your tackle/3-4 ends in a switch.

I also believe the team has a solid group of options at LB to move to a 4-3 with DOD and Niemann (possibly) outside and Hitchens inside. I think you have to work to bolster that group with a FA and a draft pick, but you probably need to do that anyhow because Ragland is shit and Smith is shit and a FA.
You really see Speaks as an under-tackle?

I wouldn't even say he's a 3-tech. I'm not terribly impressed by his athleticism in the context of an OLB, but man - he has enough athleticism to be a 5-tech, no? He's maybe not quite as long as you'd like to see, but he's not what I would call undersized there either.

I think he's a born 5-tech who can bounce inside on occasion but I damn sure can't see you leaving him there on a regular basis. You make a switch to 4-3 and I think you have an 8 sack, motor-based player in a Chris Long sort of mode. More of a poor man's Chris Long - he was really damn good at his peak and Speaks won't reach that. But late-career Long had lost his burst and was just fighting through games and being effective.
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DJ's left nut 05:20 PM 11-09-2018
I guess here's your best case scenario for him - Trey Flowers.

The Patriots run a lot of odd fronts and they line Flowers up everywhere. They'll run him out of the 0 tech in odd fronts on occasion and just have him try to split gaps. But they also often run him out of 7 and 9 techniques (and frankly, all points in between).

I think that's your hope for Speaks. And Flowers isn't exactly a technique player - he just battles. His athleticism plays up a lot from the DL and I think Speaks can be roughly that kind of player.

If he's gonna keep playing in the 290 range, I don't think he has much utility long-term (occasional coverage sacks now be damned). But if he can get into that 260-270 range, I think he can be a genuine asset at several spots along the line who naturally settles in as a 4-3 DE. I just don't think he has the wingspan to do that in a 3-4 or basic mass to be effective more than a few snaps at a time inside.
[Reply]
kccrow 05:54 PM 11-09-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You really see Speaks as an under-tackle?

I wouldn't even say he's a 3-tech. I'm not terribly impressed by his athleticism in the context of an OLB, but man - he has enough athleticism to be a 5-tech, no? He's maybe not quite as long as you'd like to see, but he's not what I would call undersized there either.

I think he's a born 5-tech who can bounce inside on occasion but I damn sure can't see you leaving him there on a regular basis. You make a switch to 4-3 and I think you have an 8 sack, motor-based player in a Chris Long sort of mode. More of a poor man's Chris Long - he was really damn good at his peak and Speaks won't reach that. But late-career Long had lost his burst and was just fighting through games and being effective.
Your UT in a 4-3 plays the 3-tech. Your NT plays 1-tech. Generally speaking of course. There's variations depending on the coordinators. If you look at a defense like Zimmer's in MIN, you'll see this alignment pretty consistently. So yeah, I see Speaks as a good 3-tech which he played at Ole Miss often.
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