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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
O.city 12:15 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by TLO:
A couple questions for discussion/speculation -

1. Is chloroquine something that is routinely stocked in hospitals? Pharmacies? I'm assuming all available supply is going to be sent to hospitals ASAP. I just spoke to a pharmacist friend who says Hydroxychloroquine would be in hand at the hospital.

2. How long, realistically, do we have to wait to see if this works?
Hospitals would have it and or have pretty easy access to it.

Stuff will start trickling In on it but it may take a bit to have concrete stuff
[Reply]
O.city 12:17 PM 03-20-2020
Did any of you guys read that Chinese article I posted last night? Did some more digging around on that, i think it’s closer to what’s happening and not just hopeful.

We’re using the numbers wrong. Or moreso we don’t know all the numbers yet
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:17 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
Off label means it’s not currently a known treatment for said disease iirc
So I guess I don't understand what the 'sympathetic use' exception even means. Because, y'know, I'm wholly ignorant of this.

So trying to add some stuff up here, am I correct in saying that doctors are 'approved' to prescribe any drug on this hypothetical 'list' of known treatements for a disease if that disease is diagnosed? But they're ONLY allowed to prescribe from that list unless they can find some sort of exception?

And so in this case, by utilizing the sympathetic use exception (which again, seems very open ended), they can effectively prescribe it? I mean...practically speaking given that we have no hypothetical list for a novel virus anyway, doesn't this just serve to put this ON the list, whether the FDA officially says so or not?

Is this little more than a CYA measure from the FDA that doctors are going to wink and nod at before firing these tablets out by the hundreds of thousands?
[Reply]
TLO 12:18 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by Monticore:
like using papers towels instead of toilet paper.
This... This isn't actually a bad analogy.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:19 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
Did any of you guys read that Chinese article I posted last night? Did some more digging around on that, i think it’s closer to what’s happening and not just hopeful.

We’re using the numbers wrong. Or moreso we don’t know all the numbers yet
Yeah - if Wuhan's CFR was actually 1.4 of symptomatic cases....fucking hell, is Italy putting bleach in their I.V.s or something?
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 12:20 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
Did any of you guys read that Chinese article I posted last night? Did some more digging around on that, i think it’s closer to what’s happening and not just hopeful.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: Does anyone trust China, for anything?

I most certainly do not.
[Reply]
wazu 12:22 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
I'm not overly worried about that, given two facts:

1. It's easily produced in generic form by multiple US companies.
2. By its nature, if it works, then it works to help prevent the virus from taking hold. So, while it's better to have the truly sick the first ones to receive the medication, having general populations armed with it in case of exposure/infection is not the worst thing in the world.

I imagine there's going to be a LOT of this drug produced in the next few weeks. If the French numbers are in any way accurate (90% tested negative after 6 days), then this drug would impede the over-running of medical facilities, which is what we are REALLY after.
Yeah but this just sounds like a bunch of assholes are stockpiling it. It needs to be available TODAY to people who actually need it, not sitting on top of the doomsday stash of a plastic surgeon.
[Reply]
Monticore 12:22 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
So I guess I don't understand what the 'sympathetic use' exception even means. Because, y'know, I'm wholly ignorant of this.

So trying to add some stuff up here, am I correct in saying that doctors are 'approved' to prescribe any drug on this hypothetical 'list' of known treatements for a disease if that disease is confirmed? But they're ONLY allowed to prescribe from that list unless they can find some sort of exception?

And so in this case, by utilizing the sympathetic use exception (which again, seems very open ended), they can effectively prescribe it? I mean...practically speaking given that we have no hypothetical list for a novel virus anyway, doesn't this just serve to put this ON the list, whether the FDA officially says so or not?

Is this little more than a CYA measure from the FDA that doctors are going to wink and nod at before firing these tablets out by the hundreds of thousands?
I am not sure how it works i'm curious, some drugs that can have dual purpose diabetes/weight loss, depression/smoking cessation, nerve pain/sleep aid etc need to be approved for each use or just it's overall safety.
[Reply]
Bwana 12:23 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Does anyone in the Western world trust China, for anything?

I certainly don't.
Not only no, but hell no.
[Reply]
O.city 12:23 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah - if Wuhan's CFR was actually 1.4 of symptomatic cases....****ing hell, is Italy putting bleach in their I.V.s or something?
Couple things though. Old population and such etc.

Plus it would mean they have like 20 million infected which, knowing what we’re seeing with asymptomatic cases that would make some sense
[Reply]
O.city 12:24 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
I've said this before and I'll say it again: Does anyone trust China, for anything?

I most certainly do not.
Not really no

But when you start adding up South Korea, Germany, Japan and the cruise ships it starts to make sense
[Reply]
O.city 12:25 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
So I guess I don't understand what the 'sympathetic use' exception even means. Because, y'know, I'm wholly ignorant of this.

So trying to add some stuff up here, am I correct in saying that doctors are 'approved' to prescribe any drug on this hypothetical 'list' of known treatements for a disease if that disease is diagnosed? But they're ONLY allowed to prescribe from that list unless they can find some sort of exception?

And so in this case, by utilizing the sympathetic use exception (which again, seems very open ended), they can effectively prescribe it? I mean...practically speaking given that we have no hypothetical list for a novel virus anyway, doesn't this just serve to put this ON the list, whether the FDA officially says so or not?

Is this little more than a CYA measure from the FDA that doctors are going to wink and nod at before firing these tablets out by the hundreds of thousands?
Sympathetic use in my understanding is more when you’re at the end of the line they can try anything
[Reply]
TLO 12:29 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
Sympathetic use in my understanding is more when you’re at the end of the line they can try anything
I believe they're looking to expand the definition of that though.
[Reply]
BleedingRed 12:38 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
This patently false.

Only people that are showing advanced symptoms are receiving the tests, so we have no idea how many are asymptotic or are in the early stages of the disease.
It isn't false, considering that 93% of the tests are coming back negative right now people are being tested.

But there isn't a single country on earth that could test Millions within this time frame.

The USA after removing the FDA and the CDC from the problem has DRAMATICALLY ramped up its capacity for testing and processing. Again, we are a massive country that is spread out. Unlike South Korea were almost a majority live in ONE CITY.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:38 PM 03-20-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
Sympathetic use in my understanding is more when you’re at the end of the line they can try anything
Yeah, but lines like that are never bright line and will slide really quickly. That's why I asked if it's a 'wink/nod' sorta thing. Is there a true black-letter definition of 'end of the line'? That wouldn't seem terribly likely.

Who's really going to call physicians on the carpet for it?

Is this just the FDA protecting themselves if things go completely haywire and this thing goes sideways in a month? "Hey, we told physicians not to go throwing these out all willy nilly until it was tested further. Not our fault they did it any contradiction of federal guidelines..."

It just sounds like a shifting of liability more than a true bright line cut-off.
[Reply]
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