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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
eDave 08:49 AM 07-31-2020

[Reply]
DaFace 09:04 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
Being 28 in 1918 isn’t like being 28 today. Life expectancy back then was 36-46 so you were practically an old man.
Late to the party, but these kinds of stats (about how low life expectancy has been in the past) are always really misleading. Life expectancy has climbed primarily because we've figured out how to stop most things from killing kids. If you looked at life expectancy only among people who reach adulthood, it's gone up a tiny bit over the years, but not near as much as you think.
[Reply]
solidgold 09:12 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by BigBeauford:
I take it this means that little ones are super spreaders probably because of their poor hygiene habits.
Also seems to indicate the virus settles in a different place, at least for this cohort, in the young kids. Being in the upper respiratory (nose) makes it more spreadable via snot (which little kids love) and regular ol' breathing. So, they'd be the ones who really need to be wearing masks--good luck there! (But it could be done...)

I've got a boy entering kindergarten and a 3yo girl. Also work with kids who have developmental disabilities in the same age range. Fairly interested in how this plays out.

Potential good news, is that what was studied is "viral nucleic acid, rather than infectious virus"--likely contributes to the explanation for better outcomes, on the whole, for those under 5. Some sort of protection factor present that reduces chance of 'full' infection, but keeps them as a vector for transmission. Cross-immunity from more recent infection with other coronaviruses?
[Reply]
BigBeauford 09:18 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by solidgold:
Also seems to indicate the virus settles in a different place, at least for this cohort, in the young kids. Being in the upper respiratory (nose) makes it more spreadable via snot (which little kids love) and regular ol' breathing. So, they'd be the ones who really need to be wearing masks--good luck there! (But it could be done...)

I've got a boy entering kindergarten and a 3yo girl. Also work with kids who have developmental disabilities in the same age range. Fairly interested in how this plays out.

Potential good news, is that what was studied is "viral nucleic acid, rather than infectious virus"--likely contributes to the explanation for better outcomes, on the whole, for those under 5. Some sort of protection factor present that reduces chance of 'full' infection, but keeps them as a vector for transmission. Cross-immunity from more recent infection with other coronaviruses?
I wonder if the factors that contribute to small children being hyper-resilient to disease contributes to this. I can't remember the course, but kids essentially have heightened abilities to fight off disease, but when they no longer can they will just "crash" or fall off that cliff. Adults are a much more gradual decline when responding to disease states.
[Reply]
ghak99 09:32 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by Kidd Lex:
That's unacceptable. Results 13 days later are damn near pointless.
If I drive East for a test I could get results within an hour. If I drive West for a test it's taking 7-10 days and has been getting closer to 12 days recently.

I understand the difference in tests, but the 10-12 day results really are nearly worthless. The time lag has defeated the whole point of the test and is merely some statistic for other people to talk about.
[Reply]
ghak99 09:55 AM 07-31-2020
Many people seem to be glossing over what this thing is doing to the kids.

Our school district is very worried about what is happening to the bottom third of the kids who basically disappeared. Some of the teachers made in home visits on their own time in preparation for whatever this year may bring, and it's not good. The local calls to domestic issues and the amount of depression that is setting in is going to have some serious consequences for a long time. Some areas are even trying to recruit extra child development and mental health workers to handle the amount of depression related issues.

It's really interesting how the older population is basically split down a tight line on this. The "I'm going to die if abc doesn't happen" versus "I've lived my life, the kids need xyz" divide is some good people watching.
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Strongside 10:04 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by DaFace:
Late to the party, but these kinds of stats (about how low life expectancy has been in the past) are always really misleading. Life expectancy has climbed primarily because we've figured out how to stop most things from killing kids. If you looked at life expectancy only among people who reach adulthood, it's gone up a tiny bit over the years, but not near as much as you think.
Well, and there were also a couple, y'know, World Wars back then.

Those were not particularly kind to those aged 18-30.
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 10:06 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by ghak99:
Many people seem to be glossing over what this thing is doing to the kids.

Our school district is very worried about what is happening to the bottom third of the kids who basically disappeared. Some of the teachers made in home visits on their own time in preparation for whatever this year may bring, and it's not good. The local calls to domestic issues and the amount of depression that is setting in is going to have some serious consequences for a long time. Some areas are even trying to recruit extra child development and mental health workers to handle the amount of depression related issues.

It's really interesting how the older population is basically split down a tight line on this. The "I'm going to die if abc doesn't happen" versus "I've lived my life, the kids need xyz" divide is some good people watching.
Anecdotal evidence has no basis here.
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Marcellus 10:09 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by DaFace:
Late to the party, but these kinds of stats (about how low life expectancy has been in the past) are always really misleading. Life expectancy has climbed primarily because we've figured out how to stop most things from killing kids. If you looked at life expectancy only among people who reach adulthood, it's gone up a tiny bit over the years, but not near as much as you think.
Thats interesting info.
[Reply]
solidgold 10:15 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by ghak99:
Many people seem to be glossing over what this thing is doing to the kids.

Our school district is very worried about what is happening to the bottom third of the kids who basically disappeared. Some of the teachers made in home visits on their own time in preparation for whatever this year may bring, and it's not good. The local calls to domestic issues and the amount of depression that is setting in is going to have some serious consequences for a long time. Some areas are even trying to recruit extra child development and mental health workers to handle the amount of depression related issues.

It's really interesting how the older population is basically split down a tight line on this. The "I'm going to die if abc doesn't happen" versus "I've lived my life, the kids need xyz" divide is some good people watching.
I sure hope this doesn't get glossed over. Child abuse numbers are down and (this time) that's not a good thing. The abuse didn't just stop, it is just much less visible because schools are a primary source of reporting and much less general public interaction happening that makes it easier to hide. All of our current stressors, as you mentioned, are only exacerbating the likelihood and severity of abuse and neglect.
[Reply]
Fish 10:15 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by ghak99:
Many people seem to be glossing over what this thing is doing to the kids.

Our school district is very worried about what is happening to the bottom third of the kids who basically disappeared. Some of the teachers made in home visits on their own time in preparation for whatever this year may bring, and it's not good. The local calls to domestic issues and the amount of depression that is setting in is going to have some serious consequences for a long time. Some areas are even trying to recruit extra child development and mental health workers to handle the amount of depression related issues.

It's really interesting how the older population is basically split down a tight line on this. The "I'm going to die if abc doesn't happen" versus "I've lived my life, the kids need xyz" divide is some good people watching.
I know there's lots of talk about the mental aspect of social distancing for kids. But I'm not sure that it's as simple as just "Send them back to school because they might get depressed at home." It shouldn't be the school's responsibility to make up for a shitty home environment. That's a separate issue that should be addressed separately. The decision to send kids back to school shouldn't be driven by the fear that they'll not be in a good environment at home otherwise. That's not really fair.
[Reply]
BigBeauford 10:16 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
Anecdotal evidence has no basis here.
As with many political issues, too many people with no skin in the game are trying to make this decision.
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Fish 10:17 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by solidgold:
I sure hope this doesn't get glossed over. Child abuse numbers are down and (this time) that's not a good thing. The abuse didn't just stop, it is just much less visible because schools are a primary source of reporting and much less general public interaction happening that makes it easier to hide. All of our current stressors, as you mentioned, are only exacerbating the likelihood and severity of abuse and neglect.
So.... address child abuse by sending them to school?
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solidgold 10:20 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by Fish:
So.... address child abuse by sending them to school?
Hell no. I agree with you too. Not the school's responsibility. Just a tough situation all around on this issue and definitely no easy solution.
[Reply]
Perineum Ripper 10:25 AM 07-31-2020
Originally Posted by Fish:
I know there's lots of talk about the mental aspect of social distancing for kids. But I'm not sure that it's as simple as just "Send them back to school because they might get depressed at home." It shouldn't be the school's responsibility to make up for a shitty home environment. That's a separate issue that should be addressed separately. The decision to send kids back to school shouldn't be driven by the fear that they'll not be in a good environment at home otherwise. That's not really fair.


Kids being depressed also isn’t just or only from shitty home environment. So to completely dismiss that is just as ignorant as thinking it’s also up to the school to fix that depression.

There is a middle area to that mental aspect, not a one way or other like you are painting it.
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