Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
Originally Posted by Bugeater:
And we should be able to take that information and make our own decisions based on it.
Not everyone is capable of that though, and they don't even realize they're incapable. Many are taking factual information and straight up calling it bullshit for no other reason than it came from a scientist and they distrust science in general for whatever moronic reason. That's quite evident here and on Facebook, etc. There's responses ranging from complete hoax, to Bill Gates trying to murder half the world's population with forced vaccines, to everybody should stay in their own homes wearing masks for the next 2 years.
It's simply too complex of a subject, and our understanding of it is changing too quickly, for the majority to understand and make their own smart decisions from. It would be different if those decisions couldn't result in harm to others. But there are some situations where the best option is to shut the fuck up and listen to the experts. When you're on a commercial airline, you don't get a say in how the plane is flown. You have to trust the pilot and accept your position. [Reply]
I think most people believe the scientists and science. Authority is what is pissing people off. Mix that leadership/authority with hypocrisy and lying about masks and you’ve created a shitstorm.
The country was founded on “fuck you”. Questioning everything is in our blood.
I can still question authority (Not acting out) while playing it safe, though. Wearing a mask is minimal in inconvenience. [Reply]
Originally Posted by sedated:
The government already decides certain behaviors, it's called having laws.
Ok guess you missed the certain point part. Let me give you an example....
(Hypothetical example)
You live in a house with 10 people, the government says only 5 people per house and want to remove 5 people from your house. Legislators pass a law saying only 5 people per house to help slow the spread.
(Not hypothetical)
I do not support UNJUST or UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws. And enforcing any law that is unconstitutional is illegal BY LAW.
As we have seen courts are already ruling these governors are enacting UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS. Depriving people of liberty should always be disgusting to everyone, no matter how well intentioned the law is.
Due Process, Privacy, pursuit of happiness .... you know that kind of shit [Reply]
Originally Posted by notorious:
I think most people believe the scientists and science. Authority is what is pissing people off. Mix that leadership/authority with hypocrisy and lying about masks and you’ve created a shitstorm.
The country was founded on “**** you”. Questioning everything is in our blood.
I can still question authority (Not acting out) while playing it safe, though. Wearing a mask is minimal in inconvenience.
I think it is primarily the leadership, but I also believe a great deal of people have lost faith in the science as well. The scientific community overall has not performed well during this pandemic. Essentially every test put out around the world has had major flaws in them. Science is still grappling with how it spreads, how long it has been here, if we are immune and how long, etc. some two to three months into this thing. Many are unaware of the challenges scientifically this virus poses and struggle with the glacial progress that appears to be made in putting this behind us. We have not been hardwired to be patient and I believe the actions of many reflect this. People have grown tired of waiting for answers. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BleedingRed:
Ok guess you missed the certain point part. Let me give you an example....
(Hypothetical example)
You live in a house with 10 people, the government says only 5 people per house and want to remove 5 people from your house. Legislators pass a law saying only 5 people per house to help slow the spread.
(Not hypothetical)
I do not support UNJUST or UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws. And enforcing any law that is unconstitutional is illegal BY LAW.
As we have seen courts are already ruling these governors are enacting UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS. Depriving people of liberty should always be disgusting to everyone, no matter how well intentioned the law is.
Due Process, Privacy, pursuit of happiness .... you know that kind of shit
You are never going to please everyone and some law deemed unconstitutional in the past just end up being part of everyday life and don't end being as big a deal people made them out to be and often made the whole better. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BleedingRed:
Ok guess you missed the certain point part. Let me give you an example....
(Hypothetical example)
You live in a house with 10 people, the government says only 5 people per house and want to remove 5 people from your house. Legislators pass a law saying only 5 people per house to help slow the spread.
(Not hypothetical)
I do not support UNJUST or UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws. And enforcing any law that is unconstitutional is illegal BY LAW.
As we have seen courts are already ruling these governors are enacting UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS. Depriving people of liberty should always be disgusting to everyone, no matter how well intentioned the law is.
Due Process, Privacy, pursuit of happiness .... you know that kind of shit
I'm sure there are some examples of certain orders being declared unconstitutional, although I don't have a list of them to see examples. I'm sure there are others that were upheld as well. But just because one ruling goes against one specific situation, cannot be extrapolated to all situations in order to justify "if you tell me what to do, you are oppressing my freedom"
Part of the issue here is that this government was purposely made to work very slowly in order to use checks and balances to make sure things remain fair, but obviously something like this pandemic is forcing everyone to make snap decisions based on the limited information they have at the time. The more time goes on, the more it will get worked out as things work through the system (and more information is available about what we are dealing with). But a single snapshot during a time when everyone is trying to adjust will not paint an accurate picture. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Fish:
Not everyone is capable of that though, and they don't even realize they're incapable. Many are taking factual information and straight up calling it bullshit for no other reason than it came from a scientist and they distrust science in general for whatever moronic reason. That's quite evident here and on Facebook, etc. There's responses ranging from complete hoax, to Bill Gates trying to murder half the world's population with forced vaccines, to everybody should stay in their own homes wearing masks for the next 2 years.
It's simply too complex of a subject, and our understanding of it is changing too quickly, for the majority to understand and make their own smart decisions from. It would be different if those decisions couldn't result in harm to others. But there are some situations where the best option is to shut the fuck up and listen to the experts. When you're on a commercial airline, you don't get a say in how the plane is flown. You have to trust the pilot and accept your position.
Not a fair analogy. If I don't trust a pilot I don't fly.
And believe me...I want to put my trust in the experts, but unfortunately I don't deal directly with them. We have politicians and the media in between us, two entities that I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bugeater:
Not a fair analogy. If I don't trust a pilot I don't fly.
And believe me...I want to put my trust in the experts, but unfortunately I don't deal directly with them. We have politicians and the media in between us, two entities that I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw.
You can find the experts' opinions if you want to avoid the filter: