Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
Originally Posted by lewdog:
They didn't recommend them at first so the general public wouldn't be hoarding masks, especially since the American public is generally idiotic......see the run on TP, paper towels and meat like people were preparing for the apocalypse. Hopefully this would allow the people in healthcare to have access to PPE. And no matter what anyone tells you, the PPE supply is still lacking tremendously on the front lines. Any press conference telling you otherwise is just bullshit.
So there are reasons for messages pertaining to medical matters to carry things other than medical efficacy and medical expertise? [Reply]
New cases per 100,000 people dropped about 35% this past week, from nearly 4 cases per 100,000 to 2.6.
This state*generally began allowing all businesses to reopen May 4, provided they could abide by certain social distancing guidelines. Indoor retail businesses must limit their number of customers to no more than 25% of normal capacity, and local communities can choose stricter rules if they choose.
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
So there are reasons for messages pertaining to medical matters to carry things other than medical efficacy and medical expertise?
Absolutely political. And sadly much of it had to be regarding the PPE issues, anyone could see how the American people would react. Now we keep hearing about these factories and companies producing mass amounts of PPE and how it's all "AWESOME!" Anyone on the front lines will tell you we are still vastly short on PPE, reusing gowns and masks for days or different patients. Limited access to N95's, unless you want to be gouged on prices from suppliers selling to the highest bidders. [Reply]
Originally Posted by lewdog:
Absolutely political. And sadly much of it had to be regarding the PPE issues, anyone could see how the American people would react. Now we keep hearing about these factories and companies producing mass amounts of PPE and how it's all "AWESOME!" Anyone on the front lines will tell you we are still vastly short on PPE, reusing gowns and masks for days or different patients. Limited access to N95's, unless you want to be gouged on prices from suppliers selling to the highest bidders.
Did you support, or criticize, or have no opinion of, the misinformation from governmental medical professionals on this matter at that time?
And how is this different from other messages, where projections of optimism with the reminder to consult your physician for specifics and applicability, is called to account for not being sufficiently credentialled, vetted and scrupulously crafted? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
So there are reasons for messages pertaining to medical matters to carry things other than medical efficacy and medical expertise?
Given the shortages, it was a triage measure, which is pretty standard expertise.
The efficacy argument is different--the question raised therein is "what are the risks of the providers of not having PPE vs. what are the risks to the general population?" If the providers can't give you care, then the system collapses. If enough people get sick that they overwhelm the hospital system, the system collapses.
It's an easy target, but what you don't see are people performing sterile compounding in Tyvek jackets that are falling apart, reusing the same surgical mask 20 times, tracking shit all around ISO 7 areas, putting N95 masks in paper bags between shifts, and sourcing facemasks from Harbor Freight because people decided to hoard PPE.
If you want to use this example to throw the baby out with the bathwater, then you are more than welcome. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
Did you support, or criticize, or have no opinion of, the misinformation from governmental medical professionals on this matter at that time?
And how is this different from other messages, where projections of optimism with the reminder to consult your physician for specifics and applicability, is called to account for not being sufficiently credentialled, vetted and scrupulously crafted?
You’re clearly clueless on this issues. It was and still is the right call. You had to attempt something with the PPE shortage. What were the other options knowing months into this that PPE is still vastly under sourced even with increased production?
But continue to use big, cool words so you look credible. [Reply]
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Given the shortages, it was a triage measure, which is pretty standard expertise.
The efficacy argument is different--the question raised therein is "what are the risks of the providers of not having PPE vs. what are the risks to the general population?" If the providers can't give you care, then the system collapses. If enough people get sick that they overwhelm the hospital system, the system collapses.
It's an easy target, but what you don't see are people performing sterile compounding in Tyvek jackets that are falling apart, reusing the same surgical mask 20 times, tracking shit all around ISO 7 areas, putting N95 masks in paper bags between shifts, and sourcing facemasks from Harbor Freight because people decided to hoard PPE.
If you want to use this example to throw the baby out with the bathwater, then you are more than welcome.
Depends on the 'baby' dunnit?
You lot seem to leaning hard [in some instances] that the sole acceptable standard is fully transparent, vetted and knowledgeable information. Yet in other instances, executive summaries, or shortcut shorthand, even so far as knowing falsehoods have a context that makes fudging and futzing 'rational and acceptable.'
Yeah, maybe we throw that baby out the fucking window and admit that there are plenty of knowledge deficiencies to go around and most everyone is trying their best to make the situation most survivable and endurable overall. [Reply]
Originally Posted by lewdog:
You’re clearly clueless on this issues. It was and still is the right call. You had to attempt something with the PPE shortage. What were the other options knowing months into this that PPE is still vastly under sourced even with increased production?
But continue to use big, cool words so you look credible.
It was a simple question, and you made no attempt to answer it.
Did you support, criticize, or have no opinion of the facemask misinformation, and how is that different from projecting optimism while also advising consultation with medical professionals?
I mean, whether you support it or condemn it, we've clearly established that there exists other concerns in conveying information under medical authority than the most effective individual precautions known at the time. . . [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
Depends on the 'baby' dunnit?
You lot seem to leaning hard [in some instances] that the sole acceptable standard is fully transparent, vetted and knowledgeable information. Yet in other instances, executive summaries, or shortcut shorthand, even so far as knowing falsehoods have a context that makes fudging and futzing 'rational and acceptable.'
That's hyperbolic. There was legitimate debate over the degree of asymptomatic spread and efficacy of mask hygiene by members of the public, even if I don't find the weight of data against their use compelling. That's different from knowing falsehoods.
I can tell the entire population to take Tamiflu next year and I will guarantee that it will lead to a decrease in hospitalizations from flu and a shortening of symptoms for those that take it. That doesn't make universal Tamiflu the right decision. [Reply]
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
That's hyperbolic. There was legitimate debate over the degree of asymptomatic spread and efficacy of mask hygiene by members of the public, even if I don't find the weight of data against their use compelling. That's different from knowing falsehoods.
I can tell the entire population to take Tamiflu next year and I will guarantee that it will lead to a decrease in hospitalizations from flu and a shortening of symptoms for those that take it. That doesn't make universal Tamiflu the right decision.
I didn't say it necessarily was a knowing falsehood. The point was that, even if it were a knowing falsehood, collateral considerations merited the messaging. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
It was a simple question, and you made no attempt to answer it.
Did you support, criticize, or have no opinion of the facemask misinformation, and how is that different from projecting optimism while also advising consultation with medical professionals?
I mean, whether you support it or condemn it, we've clearly established that there exists other concerns in conveying information under medical authority than the most effective individual precautions known at the time. . .
I said the PPE misinformation was the right call to prevent hoarding and give front line workers the best shot at protection. I do acknowledge this is a slippery slope, however. I think that’s your point and it’s valid. [Reply]
Originally Posted by loochy:
SIP doesn't mean you cant leave or go do things. It means they recommend you stay home. The business closings made it generally not worthwhile to leave home. There was no actual law or hard and fast rule though.
Down here in Arkansas part of that order included a travel ban. If you left the state you were suppose to notify the state department of health. If you did not then you got fined. Air travel was done automatically. My aunt and her boyfriend went on a ride to Missouri. They stopped a restaurant in West Plains came back through Gainesville and visited our cousin. She posted about that trip on Facebook. The Sheriff is on her Facebook. She got a $500 fine for leaving the state for recreation. It was not deemed a trip of necessity. [Reply]