No players were disciplined by Major League Baseball in the Astros' investigation. While Mets manager Carlos Beltran was part of it, he was a player at the time and thus was not suspended.
Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora is coming. It is going to be harsh, per sources.
And the biggest disservice is to the fans. No fan wants to see this shit. People want to see real competition. That's why cheating is taken seriously. If a player on second steals your sign, shame on you for not hiding it better. If a professional sign stealer with no athletic ability steals your sign from a centerfield camera, that's an entirely different thing. [Reply]
So Penn State loses titles for something that had nothing to do with cheating or what went on ON the field.... but the Astros get to keep their title for all out cheating on the field.
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Hate hate hate that people blame the owner and are freaking out on him. If he didn't know, he didn't know. If he's a normal owner, he's not going to be too involved with the on the field stuff and would have no idea this is happening. To blame him and expect him to be accountable is just so 2020. Blame whoever is in charge, for everything, instead of the individual, always.
That was my take on things too, but then the owner came out and said that their cheating didn't affect the game. That shows that he just doesn't get it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by njchiefs:
Frankly I think all of this is stupid. It is human nature to try to gain an advantage by uncovering a competitors secrets. It’s why the pitch signing has become more sophisticated to begin with. It’s why sideline coaches put the card over their mouths when calling in a play. How to you draw a line between being clever and cheating? The onus should be on the side trying to keep the secret to make their methods effective, rather than to rely on the integrity of the opponent. Where would we be without the ingenious code breaking in WW2? Is CIA espionage in foreign countries unethical?
So setting up cameras to steal signs, having those cameras wired up to live feed monitors behind the dugout. Having people watch those monitors then bag garbage cans to signal off speed pitches. Is the same as CIA espionage?
Sign stealing or reading pitch tipping is part of the game. Seeing the pitcher hold his glove higher or lower depending on the pitch is part of the game. The catcher doing a shit job of cover his signs is part of the game. Figuring out tendencies of a pitcher depending on the count or with runners on base is part of the game. Setting cameras up or having electrical buzzers taped to your body is cheating, flat out breaking the rules. That’s not being clever.
How you could not understand this is clear cheating and not being clever is fucking crazy. Comparing baseball to code breaking in war and CIA tactics is even fucking crazier [Reply]
Originally Posted by GoChargers:
That was my take on things too, but then the owner came out and said that their cheating didn't affect the game. That shows that he just doesn't get it.
I also find it hard to believe an owner becomes unaware of institutionalized cheating. A few things here and there, sure. But the owner didn't know that the stadium was being blatantly tampered with? And throughout everything crane has offered apologies that are so remorseless its almost accusing. He not only doesn't get it, he looks down on people for making a big deal about it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by GoChargers:
That was my take on things too, but then the owner came out and said that their cheating didn't affect the game. That shows that he just doesn't get it.
Not to defend the owner, but he "has" to say that. Literally any other response would make him complicit with what was going on and HE could end up suspended or heavily fined, or worse (which I fully encourage, but you get the point). [Reply]
Excellent article about how widely this was known across baseball for some time, and how frustrating it was for teams trying to prepare for the Astros. I seem to remember it being asked during the WS why the Nats were using multiple signs with no players on base. Now we know. They did a great job preparing for the cheaters.
Originally Posted by jerryaldini:
Excellent article about how widely this was known across baseball for some time, and how frustrating it was for teams trying to prepare for the Astros. I seem to remember it being asked during the WS why the Nats were using multiple signs with no players on base. Now we know. They did a great job preparing for the cheaters.
This is just like the Patriots. If this was a common practice, so would the Nats trying to hide signs all season long. When other nfl teams talk about fearing bugged locker rooms, stolen playbooks, etc. For one team and one alone, it's harder to use the excuse that it happens everywhere. [Reply]
I honestly don't care about the Astros as long as the practice stops. But I'm glad it might give an excuse to push Manfred out the door. The guy is useless. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
This is just like the Patriots. If this was a common practice, so would the Nats trying to hide signs all season long. When other nfl teams talk about fearing bugged locker rooms, stolen playbooks, etc. For one team and one alone, it's harder to use the excuse that it happens everywhere.
Yes. What’s interesting is that there is no benefit to pitchers from doing this. They are the ultimate losers in all this. And with so much movement around the league from year to year eventually someone’s going to blow the whistle. In this case it was Mike Fiers I think?
So who was the mastermind behind all this? Did they ever state that? Was it Cora and Beltran?? [Reply]
Originally Posted by jerryaldini:
Excellent article about how widely this was known across baseball for some time, and how frustrating it was for teams trying to prepare for the Astros. I seem to remember it being asked during the WS why the Nats were using multiple signs with no players on base. Now we know. They did a great job preparing for the cheaters.
There was one of the games in Houston where Strasburg, who was their best pitcher in the playoffs... was getting smashed in the first inning. He came out and dominated the rest of the game. After the game he just said he was tipping his pitches, but didn't elaborate. I always wondered now if there was something more to it than just straight up tipping his pitches. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
Yes. What’s interesting is that there is no benefit to pitchers from doing this. They are the ultimate losers in all this. And with so much movement around the league from year to year eventually someone’s going to blow the whistle. In this case it was Mike Fiers I think?
So who was the mastermind behind all this? Did they ever state that? Was it Cora and Beltran??
It's going to take a little time, but someone's going to figure that out. There's probably got to be at least two dozen investigative reporters on that part of the story right now. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bowser:
Not to defend the owner, but he "has" to say that. Literally any other response would make him complicit with what was going on and HE could end up suspended or heavily fined, or worse (which I fully encourage, but you get the point).
Then don’t hold a fucking press conference offering some faux scripted apologies from a couple of your star players while saying stupid shit like ‘I don’t think it really affected the outcome of any games’. That’s bullshit. Honestly, this press conference made it a lot worse. They should have just kept their mouths shut and said ‘no comment. We’re focusing on next season’ and leave it at that.
I mean, everyone already thinks they’re cheaters. Now everyone thinks they’re cheaters that don’t even give a shit that they cheated and on top of that are being arrogant about the whole thing. Should have just let it die and left it alone.
Their response is complete tone deaf and they deserve all the flack they’re getting. [Reply]
