Originally Posted by ChiefFanForHire:
That hippie was wrong
We are on pace to hit 12 billion in 30 years, bit different than 5 billion like in 1993, roughly 60 percent increase in less than 60 years
I never implied I personally would be the one to choose who does and doesn't breed. I implied that would be up the world state when it gets to that point.
The world is changing just like the Bible predicted it would - imagine that? If you make tens of thousands of predictions over tens of thousands of years, the law of averages dictates at least a couple will come true. I'm surprised, seeing as how you're old, that you've never heard of the "law of averages". Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I'm NOT old, I watch the same world going to shit that you, the difference is, I know organized religion is the CAUSE, not the solution. If Billy Graham were a "good man" he would have helped pass laws to get churches to pay their fair share in taxes. Instead, he helped breed the Joel Olsteens of this generation. A shameful legacy, to put it kindly.
And there it is....His "Fair Share". Got you. Tell me, should every non-profit be paying taxes? Upset that Bill Graham, a man who preached the Word of God for nearly 70 years was paid (by his Board of Directors) a salary based on his pastorship to 13 Presidents? Or as a Goodwill Ambassador to 30 countries? For serving as a world Christian Leader for 70 years?
Just curious, does it bother you that someone, say Nancy Pelosi for example, has a net worth of over 100 million dollars yet pays taxes at a rate of 22% - which, by coincidence, is 10% lower than the rest of us pays. Because, believe it or not, it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm (fairly) certain that her team of Tax Attorneys follow all applicable laws - as I am certain that Billy Graham's foundation lawyers follow the laws, as well. So does that knife cut both ways or not?
I turned 71 this year. I have (pretty much) seen it all, and done it all at one time or another. I have learned over the course of many years how to spot certain types of people. Their mannerisms, their body language, the way the express themselves, on and on. The United States Army spent a great deal of money teaching me those things for my job. Came in handy on a number of occasions.
Billy Graham, I'm sorry to say I never met the Gentleman, but I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he wasn't a genuine believer and served the people of his ministry well. However, in this day and age, it seems to bother certain types of people greatly, when any thing "religious" or especially Christian, are mentioned. That's fine, However, I truly wish that these same people would hold EVERYONE to the same high standards that they hold anyone who holds a belief in a higher being to. Seems only right, right?
Lastly, I would say to you, in response to your "Religion is the cause" argument that to me, the LACK of religion is the cause, sir. [Reply]
No your trying to push this thread to DC as you pointed out. That used to be an infraction of the rules in CP posting insults of the dead in a in memorium thread. Just ask Cosmo unless your his mult.
Ever heard the say "No right of mine obligates you" You are not obligated to muck up this thread start your own I hate BG thread. [Reply]
Originally Posted by srvy:
No your trying to push this thread to DC as you pointed out. That used to be an infraction of the rules in CP posting insults of the dead in a in memorium thread. Just ask Cosmo unless your his mult.
Ever heard the say "No right of mine obligates you" You are not obligated to muck up this thread start your own I hate BG thread.
Not really, I would never argue my point with a mod, but seeing as its an infraction of the rules, I guess I'll stop.
Did you create this thread? Oh no you didn't, and I have as much a right to comment as you do. [Reply]
Just curious, does it bother you that someone, say Nancy Pelosi for example, has a net worth of over 100 million dollars yet pays taxes at a rate of 22% - which, by coincidence, is 10% lower than the rest of us pays.
I truly wish that these same people would hold EVERYONE to the same high standards that they hold anyone who holds a belief in a higher being to. Seems only right, right?
Lastly, I would say to you, in response to your "Religion is the cause" argument that to me, the LACK of religion is the cause, sir.
Of course it does. Nancy's a crook too, in a different right. But 22 percent still a HELL of a lot higher than the big fat ZERO Billy contributed.
If you want me, and other non religious folks to hold Billy to the standard you do, it would help Billy's cause if Billy held himself to the same high standards of say....a burger flipper. He intentionally chose a line of work that skirts taxes, so, the price he pays is having everyone bring that fact up the day he dies. Having a star on the hollywood walk and breeding his kids and the next generation of Joel Olsteens didn't bode well either.
I'm not going to entertain your lame subtle assasination of my character. You worked in the army, wonderful, I've contributed to society as well. I won't attack your character, as I take you paid taxes, and my Atheist upbringing teaches me to treat others with respect who are worthy of it (i.e. NOT charlatans like Billy Graham)
As for your last statement, we'll just have to agree to disagree. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BiStateNo:
And there it is....His "Fair Share". Got you. Tell me, should every non-profit be paying taxes? Upset that Bill Graham, a man who preached the Word of God for nearly 70 years was paid (by his Board of Directors) a salary based on his pastorship to 13 Presidents? Or as a Goodwill Ambassador to 30 countries? For serving as a world Christian Leader for 70 years?
Just curious, does it bother you that someone, say Nancy Pelosi for example, has a net worth of over 100 million dollars yet pays taxes at a rate of 22% - which, by coincidence, is 10% lower than the rest of us pays. Because, believe it or not, it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm (fairly) certain that her team of Tax Attorneys follow all applicable laws - as I am certain that Billy Graham's foundation lawyers follow the laws, as well. So does that knife cut both ways or not?
I turned 71 this year. I have (pretty much) seen it all, and done it all at one time or another. I have learned over the course of many years how to spot certain types of people. Their mannerisms, their body language, the way the express themselves, on and on. The United States Army spent a great deal of money teaching me those things for my job. Came in handy on a number of occasions.
Billy Graham, I'm sorry to say I never met the Gentleman, but I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he wasn't a genuine believer and served the people of his ministry well. However, in this day and age, it seems to bother certain types of people greatly, when any thing "religious" or especially Christian, are mentioned. That's fine, However, I truly wish that these same people would hold EVERYONE to the same high standards that they hold anyone who holds a belief in a higher being to. Seems only right, right?
Lastly, I would say to you, in response to your "Religion is the cause" argument that to me, the LACK of religion is the cause, sir.
Originally Posted by ChiefFanForHire:
Of course it does. Nancy's a crook too, in a different right. But 22 percent still a HELL of a lot higher than the big fat ZERO Billy contributed.
If you want me, and other non religious folks to hold Billy to the standard you do, it would help Billy's cause if Billy held himself to the same high standards of say....a burger flipper. He intentionally chose a line of work that skirts taxes, so, the price he pays is having everyone bring that fact up the day he dies. Having a star on the hollywood walk and breeding his kids and the next generation of Joel Olsteens didn't bode well either.
I'm not going to entertain your lame subtle assasination of my character. You worked in the army, wonderful, I've contributed to society as well. I won't attack your character, as I take you paid taxes, and my Atheist upbringing teaches me to treat others with respect who are worthy of it (i.e. NOT charlatans like Billy Graham)
As for your last statement, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I never held Rev Graham to ANY standard. I simply admired the man and his works. Why in the world would I hold a burger flipper to the same standard as a world evangelist? That's ridiculous. Both "occupations" if you will, are completely different. His "Line of work" doesn't break any laws or are you aware of that? It seems that you have a Socialist view of "work" and of course, that is your choice; unfortunately, you are blaming Reverend Graham rather than the system that made those laws. Do you, as well, blame the Pope for living in grand opulence while at the Vatican? I certainly do not.
Never once did I attack your character. Why would I? I know less of you than I do Reverend Graham. Fortunately, we live in a country that allows its citizens to believe as they will. I take no offense whatsoever at that. It does, however, at times seem as though those, with your beliefs, go out of their way to belittle the character of those with which they disagree, which is sad. Sometimes it seems a little "petty" and other times, it seems envious.
I am going to end this rant now. You have a pleasant and blessed day! There's no need to go any farther with it. RIP Reverend Graham. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BiStateNo:
And there it is....His "Fair Share". Got you. Tell me, should every non-profit be paying taxes? Upset that Bill Graham, a man who preached the Word of God for nearly 70 years was paid (by his Board of Directors) a salary based on his pastorship to 13 Presidents? Or as a Goodwill Ambassador to 30 countries? For serving as a world Christian Leader for 70 years?
Just curious, does it bother you that someone, say Nancy Pelosi for example, has a net worth of over 100 million dollars yet pays taxes at a rate of 22% - which, by coincidence, is 10% lower than the rest of us pays. Because, believe it or not, it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm (fairly) certain that her team of Tax Attorneys follow all applicable laws - as I am certain that Billy Graham's foundation lawyers follow the laws, as well. So does that knife cut both ways or not?
I turned 71 this year. I have (pretty much) seen it all, and done it all at one time or another. I have learned over the course of many years how to spot certain types of people. Their mannerisms, their body language, the way the express themselves, on and on. The United States Army spent a great deal of money teaching me those things for my job. Came in handy on a number of occasions.
Billy Graham, I'm sorry to say I never met the Gentleman, but I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he wasn't a genuine believer and served the people of his ministry well. However, in this day and age, it seems to bother certain types of people greatly, when any thing "religious" or especially Christian, are mentioned. That's fine, However, I truly wish that these same people would hold EVERYONE to the same high standards that they hold anyone who holds a belief in a higher being to. Seems only right, right?
Lastly, I would say to you, in response to your "Religion is the cause" argument that to me, the LACK of religion is the cause, sir.
Originally Posted by BiStateNo:
I however, at times seem as though those, with your beliefs, go out of their way to belittle the character of those with which they disagree, which is sad. Sometimes it seems a little "petty" and other times, it seems envious.
RIP Reverend Graham.
"All homosexuals should be castrated" - Billy Graham
We wouldn't want to say mean thing about a "good man" ^^^ right?
ESPECIALLY while he was taking advantage of tax laws that say he can keep 25 million of 25 million, while a burger flipper has $100 out of $450 taken from every check of his entire life.
If you don't like people being jealous or mean spiritied to Billy, maybe its because we're all are expected to be nice to people at legitimate jobs that pay taxes, instead of raking in millions tax free to spread a personal message of hate.
People who preach hate don't go to heaven, as I've learned, admittedly, secondhand. That's why if there is a hell, Billy is currently burning in it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BiStateNo:
Do you, as well, blame the Pope for living in grand opulence while at the Vatican? I certainly do not.
Seeing as how you claim to a christian, you should. Seeing as how you don't, it tells me care far more about converting followers to your faith, keeping all the money, and procreating more followers thereafter, than you sincerely care about humanity as a whole - i.e. those disgusting non-christians.
No wonder you liked Billy so much. As long as people agree with everything you and he says, and put hard (tax free) cash in his kids hands, it's always "message of love".
And when they don't it's "all homosexuals should be castrated." [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefFanForHire:
I'm exercising my free will to point out Graham life's legacy was that of a swindlers.
Evidence please?
Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be lumping Graham's personal income and the finances of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association as being the same???
The BGEA is a non-profit organization ... that abides by U.S. tax codes. The board of directors set the amount of his modest salary. He purposely set it up so no one could accuse him of getting wealthy from his ministry. The funds came from denotations of ordinary Christians who willingly gave the money. So, who do you think he is "swindling?"
BTW ... the royalty from the books he authored goes into the BGEA's bank account. Maybe the people who "estimate" his wealth as $25M assume he profited from the sale of his books. He did NOT.
"... swindlers ..." who, when, where, why did he swindle anyone. He set up the BGEA in an effort to keep these accusation from happening. The BGEA's board of directors decide where the associations funds are/were used. Only a small percentage of the income of BGEA is/was used for administration costs. Also, he paid taxes on his income according to IRS codes.
BTW ... he and all pastors/religious workers/etc. pay all of the FICA (is it called "payroll tax?) tax. Meaning ... normally an employer pays half of the employee's FICA tax. But, Graham and all pastors pays about 7.2% more in taxes that a McDo worker pays because they pay all of that tax.
Note: I agree with you re: many of the other TV "preachers." Their focus seems to be on fame, fortune, etc. and most of them do keep all of the money. But, Graham cannot be blamed for their "transgressions," because they did not follow his example of putting safe guards into place.
Do I think Graham is perfect? Nope! He was not perfect!!! [Reply]
Originally Posted by Manila-Chief:
Evidence please?
Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be lumping Graham's personal income and the finances of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association as being the same???
The BGEA is a non-profit organization ... that abides by U.S. tax codes. The board of directors set the amount of his modest salary. He purposely set it up so no one could accuse him of getting wealthy from his ministry. The funds came from denotations of ordinary Christians who willingly gave the money. So, who do you think he is "swindling?"
People also willingly give all their money to Nigerian scammers. "Willingly" doesn't always mean it isn't swindling... [Reply]
