Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
It’s going to be Matheny, gang. Hope Im wrong but that’s not just speculation. Sherman will let Moore make the call.
Matheny’s religion was a problem in St. Louis, if - as reported by credible people that cover the Cardinals - it led to favoritism for players who attended his bible study.
The other concerns are the way he runs his clubhouse - rigid and uptight is what I hear - and the way he treats young players - no trust.
Like I said, Moore is using up whatever rope he had left with me.
Originally Posted by Mecca:
I think it's funny that he doesn't understand how religion can be an issue.
I’m a nonbeliever, but I don’t have an issue with Matheny being religious or anti porn or even having a bible study in the clubhouse.
I have an issue IF - as guys like Joe Strauss and Mark Saxon and Bernie Miklasz have intimated and is more widely rumored and was backed up by my friend who was inside that clubhouse to cover the team - the Bible study participants got preferential treatment, free reign in the clubhouse, and playing time they didn’t deserve.
The 33-year-old Norris has been mercilessly riding 21-year old rookie Jordan Hicks since spring training, reminding him to be at meetings on time and publicly calling him out when he is lagging in any of the details a visitor might not notice, but other players do. Perhaps Hicks will one day appreciate the treatment?
“Probably not,” Cardinals manager Mike Matheny admitted with a chuckle. “But Bud’s going to do continue to do what he thinks is right as a veteran, so you respect that.”
[...]
Matheny sees Norris’ actions as an effort to carry on the dying tradition of teaching younger players in the harshest possible ways. Matheny himself faced that on the Milwaukee Brewers when he broke in as a young catcher 24 years ago.
Matheny has reportedly had conversations with Hicks to explain that Norris’ behavior is the closer trying to to show he’s invested in Hicks’ success. Because we’re dealing with Mike Matheny here, he also stumped for “the dying tradition of teaching younger players in the harshest possible ways,” adding “I think the game has progressively gotten a little softer.”
Though Hicks is the most frequent target of Norris’ attention, he isn’t the only reliever who has sometimes prompted him to speak up. Matheny said he invited Norris to take leadership of the bullpen and he has responded by giving him occasional reports of pitchers not living up to the standards the team set in spring training. At times, Matheny said, he has levied team fines after Norris’ reports."
I am pretty stunned that GMDM is even giving Matheny consideration in light of the KCStar's article on Danny about how this type of hazing almost ended his career. Say what you will about the Duffman, but we likely don't make the 2014 playoffs without him and certainly don't lock down homefield advantage in 2015 without Duffy either. This article doesn't even get into Matheny's feuds with Pham (I see he's killing it with Tampa. How'd that work out for you, Mike?) and others on the ballclub. Hard pass from me. If Moore hires Matheny, my patience with GMDM is done. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
So, I did some digging myself on Matheny to see if this a man I want leading a group of young players. Turns out, it's an absolute no.
The 33-year-old Norris has been mercilessly riding 21-year old rookie Jordan Hicks since spring training, reminding him to be at meetings on time and publicly calling him out when he is lagging in any of the details a visitor might not notice, but other players do. Perhaps Hicks will one day appreciate the treatment?
“Probably not,” Cardinals manager Mike Matheny admitted with a chuckle. “But Bud’s going to do continue to do what he thinks is right as a veteran, so you respect that.”
[...]
Matheny sees Norris’ actions as an effort to carry on the dying tradition of teaching younger players in the harshest possible ways. Matheny himself faced that on the Milwaukee Brewers when he broke in as a young catcher 24 years ago.
Matheny has reportedly had conversations with Hicks to explain that Norris’ behavior is the closer trying to to show he’s invested in Hicks’ success. Because we’re dealing with Mike Matheny here, he also stumped for “the dying tradition of teaching younger players in the harshest possible ways,” adding “I think the game has progressively gotten a little softer.”
Though Hicks is the most frequent target of Norris’ attention, he isn’t the only reliever who has sometimes prompted him to speak up. Matheny said he invited Norris to take leadership of the bullpen and he has responded by giving him occasional reports of pitchers not living up to the standards the team set in spring training. At times, Matheny said, he has levied team fines after Norris’ reports."
I am pretty stunned that GMDM is even giving Matheny consideration in light of the KCStar's article on Danny about how this type of hazing almost ended his career. Say what you will about the Duffman, but we likely don't make the 2014 playoffs without him and certainly don't lock down homefield advantage in 2015 without Duffy either. This article doesn't even get into Matheny's feuds with Pham (I see he's killing it with Tampa. How'd that work out for you, Mike?) and others on the ballclub. Hard pass from me. If Moore hires Matheny, my patience with GMDM is done.
Look man, I got zero issues with the guys religion. However when you use it to make decisions like hey dudes in my bible study get more playing time that is an issue.
But that is the reason he's going to get hired. DM is a huge religious dude so why wouldn't he want a man he works closely with to be just like that too? It's not good when I hear comments like "if the Royals had, had the first pick would they have taken Witt or Rutschmann, and there are people in baseball saying "whichever one reads their bible more". Religion is fine but not when it becomes the prevailing thing that matters in decisions.
If the best player in a draft was an open atheist would the Royals even consider him? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
I think it's funny that he doesn't understand how religion can be an issue.
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Oh yay. We’re going to do this again.
I really don't know why any of you engage with this clown. Debate is one thing, but he's a contrarian on every single subject. I'm ashamed he's a KU fan but have no doubt he obtained his degree (if he has one) from somewhere else.
Also look forward to his negative rep for this post saying something along the lines of "I own your head dumbass" [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Oh yay. We’re going to do this again.
I wouldn't.
Look - you'll never convince him and it's not worth the effort trying. So why bother?
There are dozens of other reasons to be pissed about that hire. You mentioned the bullpen usage and that's an obvious one. It isn't just about how hard he leaned on his 'circle of trust' to create the injury problems that plagued that 'pen - and man oh man, did he run his favorite relievers into the ground; it was always hilarious to see how many cardinals were at the top of the leaderboards in appearances on 0 days rest. The guy just would not get away from his 2 favorite righties and his favorite lefty - ever.
It's also about the fact that he just sucks ass at knowing when to pull a pitcher and who to replace them with. I think it was someone at BP or maybe the Ringer; someone did a study a few years back comparing all managers bullpen patterns and came to the conclusion that Matheny was easily the worst in baseball. And he was the worst by so much that they compared his decisions to what would've happened if a random number generator made the calls for him.
Matheny's 'logic' was worse than blind ass luck. Literally throwing darts at a dartboard while blindfolded would've yielded better outcomes.
Over in the Cardinals thread I've also gone over the defensive runs saved via the shift with the Cardinals. The Cadinals saved all of 6 runs in his entire time in STL via the shift; 4th worst in baseball over that period. They became the best in baseball (saved over 30 since Shildt took over) after he left.
They were the 4th worst baserunning team in the league while he was there; a shocking -36 runs created in his time at the helm. The Cardinals are plus 20 in a season and a half under Shildt.
When Matheny was there we could speculate what might have been with a qualified manager but that's all it ever was - speculation. Then Shildt came in and the areas that a team can really see improvement in coaching did a 180 literally overnight. From among the worst baserunning teams to the best. From among the worst defensive teams to the best. From a bullpen that was routinely at the bottom of the league to one that was in the top 5 despite losing its closer and having a chaff LH relief corps.
We always thought Mike Matheny was a disaster - Mike Shildt's success in the 'manager areas' served to prove it.
You DO NOT want this guy. Take the bible study shit out of it. Don't even speak to the issues with communication with his players, like when he didn't talk to Fowler for a month or used Bud Norris as a clubhouse narc. Don't even speak to more nebulous issues like watching him get de-pantsed routinely in the post-season by Bruce Bochy; still dumbfounded that he lost a game with a guy who hadn't pitched in a month pitching in extras.
Leave the 'style' points out of it and focus just on tangible, on the field production. That's all you need to do and you can STILL easily reach the conclusion that Mike Matheny is very possibly the last person on this planet you'd want managing your baseball team. My 5 year old would at least stay the !@#$ out of the way.
It blows my mind that he's still in consideration. It truly is staggering. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RockChalk:
I really don't know why any of you engage with this clown. Debate is one thing, but he's a contrarian on every single subject. I'm ashamed he's a KU fan but have no doubt he obtained his degree (if he has one) from somewhere else.
Also look forward to his negative rep for this post saying something along the lines of "I own your head dumbass"
:-) I got a "I own ur soul" neg rep from PB the other day [Reply]
You keep the divisive religion and politics out of the workplace. Matheney is disqualified enough for other reasons that if it happens, you know religion has something to do with it, as it likely did for Hillman. DM sees it as a leadership character issue. If this happens he needs to go. [Reply]
