Originally Posted by : American Airlines not denying UFO spotting, says talk to the FBI
Pilot said it "looked like a cruise missile type of thing"
By Paul Best | Fox News
An American Airlines passenger jet traveling from Cincinnati to Phoenix encountered a UFO over northeastern New Mexico Sunday afternoon.
The pilot on flight 2292 radioed around 1:00 p.m. CST that the UFO was flying right on top of them, according to a radio transmission recorded by Steve Douglass on his blog, Deep Black Horizon. American Airlines verified to Fox News that the transmission is from flight 2292.
"Do you have any targets up here? We just had something go right over the top of us," the pilot said in the radio transmission.
"I hate to say this but it looked like a long cylindrical object that almost looked like a cruise missile type of thing moving really fast. It went right over the top of us."
American Airlines confirmed that the radio transmission is authentic, but did not give any further comment on the possible alien encounter.
"Following a debrief with our Flight Crew and additional information received, we can confirm this radio transmission was from American Airlines Flight 2292 on Feb. 21," an American Airlines spokesperson told Fox News in a statement. "For any additional questions on this, we encourage you to reach out to the FBI."
The FBI did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Flight 2292 was around 37,000 feet at the time of the sighting, and Albuquerque Center did not respond because local air traffic interfered, according to Douglass. The flight went on to land in Phoenix, Arizona.
New Mexico is home to White Sands Missile Range, which is located in the southern part of the state and is described as the Department of Defense's "largest, fully-instrumented, open air range."
White Sands Missile Range did not respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Thousands of UFO sightings are reported each year, but encounters by pilots have received increased attention recently.
In February 2018, two pilots separately encounter an object beaming light at roughly 50,000 feet in eastern Arizona, the Arizona Republic reported.
Between 2014 and 2015, Navy pilots encountered numerous UFOs traveling at hypersonic speeds up to 30,000 feet in the air, the New York Times reported.
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Please trust me when I say there is no discussing this subject in good faith with Fish, his mind was made up a looong time ago
Oh, I get it. My reply wasn't really intended to try and change Fish's mind. It was for anyone else that watched that silly clip he posted. while amusing, it doesn't accurately describe anything worthwhile about high-altitude/high-speed flight performance. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
This would be much more convincing if the craft were 50+ feet long, at an altitude of over 30,000 ft., and could perform any of these maneuvers without its rotors or any visible control surfaces/propulsion. For 8+ continuous hours.
But the fact remains that no such aircraft exists in the U.S. inventory. In fact, the simple rotation without a loss of altitude performed by the vessel in the IR gun camera footage from one of the F/A-18Ds is literally impossible at that altitude and speed without exhibiting some aspect change and/or thrust increase. The laws of aerodynamics are quite specific about that.
Never mind that there's no visible movement of any control surfaces to initiate the rotation, or the fact that there's no visible means of propulsion, which there should be in that IR footage. That light whitish haze around the vehicle indicates something around the vehicle that's cooler than the surrounding air, which would've been something like -20F to -40F at that altitude. Everything humans use to create thrust produces heat, so we should be seeing at least a dark gray or even black haze, not white.
Well duh. I obviously wasn't trying to say the pilot saw a drone exactly like that. The point is that this kind of thing is available to the public. The military has essentially unlimited funds and resources to engineer something even more impressive.
The footage is too hazy to really accurately determine the things you're describing. But regardless, saying we couldn't have anything capable of it is a bit presumptuous. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Please trust me when I say there is no discussing this subject in good faith with Fish, his mind was made up a looong time ago
LOL. Incredible claims require incredible evidence. Sorry I'm not as quick as you to directly equate anything unknown to interdimensional beings. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Fish:
Well duh. I obviously wasn't trying to say the pilot saw a drone exactly like that. The point is that this kind of thing is available to the public. The military has essentially unlimited funds and resources to engineer something even more impressive.
The footage is too hazy to really accurately determine the things you're describing. But regardless, saying we couldn't have anything capable of it is a bit presumptuous.
Actually there's plenty of definition if you understand how the HUD works, to understand that the object doesn't change aspect, or that there's no visible means of propulsion, it's rough airspeed, or that the thing doesn't change altitude significantly.
And we have the pirep from the witnesses themselves that all said the thing didn't have any visible control surfaces, that it was at 30,000 ft., traveling at several hundred knots against the prevailing wind, and you can hear one of them report quite clearly that the thing rotated. And you can hear the surprise in his voice, because as a veteran aviator he knew quite well that the object shouldn't have been able to do that without a significant loss of altitude. [Reply]
When I'm not working as a football analyst or brain surgeon trainee, I like to dabble in space research.
First of all, I blame Einstein for all this "nothing can exceed the speed of light" talk. As is typical of "scientists", they accept whatever their brain can manage at any given frame of reference and special relativity is about as far as most of them can handle. Besides, quantum entanglement has already challenged that theory. Furthermore, I am convinced that there is far more that we "don't" know than what we "do" know. If that were not so, we would still be swapping rocks for hirsute women.
As for Proxima b, I don't think these visitors are from there. Although the planet appears to orbit in the "habitable zone", there are problems. Any life form arising on Proxima b would probably have vision adapted for the infrared spectrum since Proxima Centauri emits mainly infrared. Beings from there would also likely be very dead since the irradiation originating from Proxima Centauri is enough to kill a bacteria. Of course, a civilization could have evolved there and abandoned the joint vast millennia ago. In which case, they aren't there now.
Therefore, they have to be from somewhere else.
And if they're not from China, I propose that we're seeing scout ships or probes that do not contain life as we know it. If anything, they are simply collecting data and sending reports via Einstein's "spooky action at a distance" method.
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Actually there's plenty of definition if you understand how the HUD works, to understand that the object doesn't change aspect, or that there's no visible means of propulsion, it's rough airspeed, or that the thing doesn't change altitude significantly.
And we have the pirep from the witnesses themselves that all said the thing didn't have any visible control surfaces, that it was at 30,000 ft., traveling at several hundred knots against the prevailing wind, and you can hear one of them report quite clearly that the thing rotated. And you can hear the surprise in his voice, because as a veteran aviator he knew quite well that the object shouldn't have been able to do that without a significant loss of altitude.
Many of the claims absolutely are estimates made by the individuals. They've admitted as much. Here's a few quotes directly from Fravor's copilot who recorded it..
Originally Posted by :
Before Underwood spotted the flying object, he said, he received a tip from his commanding officer that there might be something strange in the sky. A few days earlier, a guided missile cruiser called the USS Princeton had been tracking around eight to ten mysterious flying objects near the Catalina and San Clemente islands in California.
"Dave Fravor was like, 'Hey, dude. BOLO.' Like, be on the lookout for just something weird," Underwood told New York Magazine.
So Fravor had already put the idea in his head that he should look for something weird.
Originally Posted by :
At one point, the object appeared to dart from a high altitude of around 60,000 feet to a low altitude of 50 feet "within seconds," according to the DOD report. At another point, it veered violently to the left.
BUT THEN ADDED....
Former members of the military have suggested that glitches in the infrared camera in Underwood's plane may have been playing tricks on the pilot's eye.
Retired Air Force Major James McGaha also proposed that the object might have appeared to veer dramatically because of the way Underwood was maneuvering his aircraft. Underwood told New York Magazine that he wasn't able to see the object when it veered to the left, but he believes it moved on its own. "That part kind of sucks, because I can't confirm that the object aggressively accelerated that way," he said. "But I have my feelings, based off of my experience with my equipment - and also just logic, when it comes to, you know, physics."
Regarding the speed, the radar operator actually clocked the Tic Tac at 120 knots. Which is actually not that fast.
Originally Posted by :
The story of the Tic Tac begins around November 10, 2004, when radar operator Kevin Day first reported seeing odd and slow-moving objects flying in groups of five to ten off of San Clemente Island, west of the San Diego coast. At an elevation of 28,000 feet, moving at a speed of approximately 120 knots (about 138 miles per hour), the clusters were too high to be birds, too slow to be conventional aircraft, and were not traveling on any established flight path, at least according to Day.
That's ignoring the point that this was leaked by the To the Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, created by Blink 182 singer Tom Delonge. Who is an outright UFO nut.
I mean, it's a really cool unexplained video. But there's way too many questions all around to make any accurate claims. Another interesting point is that this video was never actually "Declassified" like a lot of the sources claim. It was actually "Unclassified" material which is an important distinction. That means it was never classified at any point. If the government thought it was something of importance, like some tech from another country or another planet, they would have absolutely classified that immediately.
Here's the direct quote from the DOD after To the Stars Academy "leaked" the video:
Originally Posted by :
After a thorough review, the department has determined that the authorized release of these unclassified videos does not reveal any sensitive capabilities or systems, and does not impinge on any subsequent investigations of military air space incursions by unidentified aerial phenomena.
Originally Posted by Fish:
Many of the claims absolutely are estimates made by the individuals. They've admitted as much. Here's a few quotes directly from Fravor's copilot who recorded it..
So Fravor had already put the idea in his head that he should look for something weird.
Regarding the speed, the radar operator actually clocked the Tic Tac at 120 knots. Which is actually not that fast.
That's ignoring the point that this was leaked by the To the Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, created by Blink 182 singer Tom Delonge. Who is an outright UFO nut.
I mean, it's a really cool unexplained video. But there's way too many questions all around to make any accurate claims. Another interesting point is that this video was never actually "Declassified" like a lot of the sources claim. It was actually "Unclassified" material which is an important distinction. That means it was never classified at any point. If the government thought it was something of importance, like some tech from another country or another planet, they would have absolutely classified that immediately.
Here's the direct quote from the DOD after To the Stars Academy "leaked" the video:
Maybe the best potential evidence to date. But way too many questions to address the claims you're making.
No. Here's what you aren't getting. NOTHING should fly at a mere 120 knots at that altitude. I fly a straight-wing twin-turboprop (Metroliner III), an aircraft that is essentially designed to fly without stalling at low speeds regardless of altitude, and my plane would fall out of the sky at anything less than 180 knts IAS at 30,000 ft. And that's in straight and level flight. Rotate about the longitudinal axis at 120 knts?
That's impossible at 20,000 ft, much less 30,000 ft.
What should've happened is the craft should've either stalled outright before it rolled through 25 degrees, or lost several hundred feet of altitude as it rolled. If not, it should've tilted its nose significantly upward, and significantly increased its thrust, so much so, that either event would've been plainly obvious in that IR gun camera film.
But here's the thing: I have nearly 20 years flying everything from trainer single-prop aircraft, Pitts Specials, to high-performance airplanes, to jet-powered aircraft. And I've observed dozens military fighter/bomber aircraft with Mk. 1 eyeballs, as well as on my ship's radar display.
The reality is simple: nothing man-made can do what that thing did in that gun camera film.
Not at that altitude, at that airspeed, period. The moment it rolled over at that angular rate, at that altitude, velocity, without any visible flight controls or increase in thrust/velocity or significant loss of altitude, it unequivocally, and undeniably, made plain that it wasn't an aircraft built by the U.S. Or any other first world-based entity for that matter. [Reply]
Also, I met CMDR. Fravor back in 2004 or 2005. He and his RIO were ferrying an aircraft back to CA, and had made a pitstop at ABQ, at the same time our flight had stopped there for refueling. We were just a crew of flight instructors, and to have a real Navy F/A-18 crew talk to us was a lifetime event.
I only spent about 45 minutes with CMDR Fravor, but I found him to be an earnest, intelligent, and completely rational individual. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
No, donkey. Here's what you aren't getting. NOTHING should fly at a mere 120 knots at that altitude. I fly a straight-wing twin-turboprop (Metroliner III), an aircraft that is essentially designed to fly without stalling at low speeds regardless of altitude, and my plane would fall out of the sky at anything less than 180 knts IAS at 30,000 ft. And that's in straight and level flight. Rotate about the longitudinal axis at 120 knts?
[B][I] That's impossible at 20,000 ft, much less 30,000 ft.
What should've happened is the craft should've either stalled outright before it rolled through 25 degrees, or lost several hundred feet of altitude as it rolled. If not, it should've tilted its nose significantly upward, and significantly increased its thrust, so much so, that either event would've been plainly obvious in that IR gun camera film.
I mean I get it; you don't know shit from shinola in the area of flight characteristics. Why would you?
So you're just reaching.
But I have nearly 20 years flying everything from trainer single-prop aircraft, Pitts Specials, to high-performance airplanes, to jet-powered aircraft. And I've seen military fighter/bomber aircraft with Mk. 1 eyeballs, as well as on my ship's radar display.
The reality is simple: nothing man-made can do what that thing did in that gun camera film.
Not at that altitude, at that airspeed, period. The moment it rolled over at that angular rate, at that altitude, velocity, without any visible flight controls or increase in thrust/velocity or significant loss of altitude, it unequivocally, and undeniably, made plain that it wasn't an aircraft built by the U.S. Or any other first world-based entity for that matter.
If the US government believed it wasn't an aircraft built by the US or any other terrestrial entity, that would have been a pretty big deal, clearly necessitating classifying the data. But it wasn't. The opinion of a Retired Air Force Major and former members of the military have suggested possible glitches in IR could have been the result. No offense to your twin-turbo prop, etc. experience. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Fish:
If the US government believed it wasn't an aircraft built by the US or any other terrestrial entity, that would have been a pretty big deal, clearly necessitating classifying the data. But it wasn't. The opinion of a Retired Air Force Major and former members of the military have suggested possible glitches in IR could have been the result. No offense to your twin-turbo prop, etc. experience.
Here's the problem with that theory: multiple crews reported the same exact observations. And multiple gun camera footage was taken of the exact same events, showing exactly the same results. The Navy released just 3-4 video clips, and yet dozens of flight crews witnessed these objects, and a typical Navy CAP is several pairs. So while it might be possible that one or even two aircraft could've experienced technical issues with their avionics sensor arrays, the odds that it could happen to multiple flights and multiple crews over a period of days is about the same as lightning striking the same spot 5 times in a row.
So what you have at the very least is several pairs of highly trained, better-than-average eyesight, professional, highly experienced observers reporting that they saw these things at contact range and on their sensor arrays, performing maneuvers that no known aircraft could possibly perform, for a duration that exceeds the known limitations of the most highly advanced high performance aircraft in the world by a factor of 10. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Here's the problem with that theory: multiple crews reported the same exact observations. And multiple gun camera footage was taken of the exact same events, showing exactly the same results. The Navy released just 3-4 video clips, and yet dozens of flight crews witnessed these objects, and a typical Navy CAP is several pairs. So while it might be possible that one or even two aircraft could've experienced technical issues with their avionics sensor arrays, the odds that it could happen to multiple flights and multiple crews over a period of days is about the same as lightning striking the same spot 5 times in a row.
So what you have at the very least is several pairs of highly trained, better-than-average eyesight, professional, highly experienced observers reporting that they saw these things at contact range and on their sensor arrays, performing maneuvers that no known aircraft could possibly perform, for a duration that exceeds the known limitations of the most highly advanced high performance aircraft in the world by a factor of 10.
This thing easily exceeded the known limitations of the most highly advanced high performance aircraft in the world by a factor of 10, and yet the US military just sat on this unclassified video for decades without classifying it, and didn't blink when it was released unauthorized by some known UFO conspiracy folks? :-) [Reply]
