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Nzoner's Game Room>WTF is with the defense?
petegz28 10:41 PM 11-22-2020
That's 2 games in a row they really didn't do a fucking thing. Carr had all fucking night to throw. Guys are dropping shoulders and not wrapping up. YAC is killing us. Receivers are running wide open.

I will give them some credit in that I thought they stopped the run fairly well against the Raiders.

No pass rush
No tackling
No attitude

WTF?
[Reply]
Chris Meck 09:24 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Sorry, but I don't buy it.

For people that actually appreciate it, that Super Bowl win erased it all.

There's just people here that live to bitch, they'll never change.
well there's a lot of hyperbole.

There's reason for concern; and I'm concerned.

Jones and Clark have a tendency to disappear for stretches of a season, and that's concerning.

Sorensen and Niemann are targeted by opposing offenses, and that's concerning. Bad tackling especially by those two, as well as being complete liabilities in coverage is concerning.

Will they get it together like last year? I hope so. I don't see how Sorensen and Niemann are suddenly going to get better though. It seems they are who they are. Somebody on the roster is going to have to step up and take their snaps.

Willie Gay in for Niemann? I really hope so.

There appears to be nobody to replace Sorensen, who was personally responsible for like 100 of the Raiders yards. (Unscientifically, but I doubt that's an exaggeration.)

So I don't know. I THINK maybe it's time to rotate Saunders in against teams that don't possess top flight running games; I think he gives you a little pass rush that Pennel doesn't although Pennel is a run stuffing beast. Maybe we need to simplify some coverages in order to get the best athletes on the field.

Maybe with Baker coming in you could play more man. The back 7 is just not playing fast right now, especially in the middle of the field. A lot of blown coverages, and a lot of being a step too late.

The pass rush is really the most concerning factor. I get that the Raiders have a great line, but it didn't look great against the Panthers either, and they do not.

So, I'm concerned, but I'm not panicked. Know what I mean?
[Reply]
htismaqe 09:26 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
well there's a lot of hyperbole.

There's reason for concern; and I'm concerned.

Jones and Clark have a tendency to disappear for stretches of a season, and that's concerning.

Sorensen and Niemann are targeted by opposing offenses, and that's concerning. Bad tackling especially by those two, as well as being complete liabilities in coverage is concerning.

Will they get it together like last year? I hope so. I don't see how Sorensen and Niemann are suddenly going to get better though. It seems they are who they are. Somebody on the roster is going to have to step up and take their snaps.

Willie Gay in for Niemann? I really hope so.

There appears to be nobody to replace Sorensen, who was personally responsible for like 100 of the Raiders yards. (Unscientifically, but I doubt that's an exaggeration.)

So I don't know. I THINK maybe it's time to rotate Saunders in against teams that don't possess top flight running games; I think he gives you a little pass rush that Pennel doesn't although Pennel is a run stuffing beast. Maybe we need to simplify some coverages in order to get the best athletes on the field.

Maybe with Baker coming in you could play more man. The back 7 is just not playing fast right now, especially in the middle of the field. A lot of blown coverages, and a lot of being a step too late.

The pass rush is really the most concerning factor. I get that the Raiders have a great line, but it didn't look great against the Panthers either, and they do not.

So, I'm concerned, but I'm not panicked. Know what I mean?
I know EXACTLY what you mean.

There's plenty of reasons to be concerned, for sure.
[Reply]
HemiEd 09:29 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
The Raiders haven't had a holding penalty for almost a month.

Not a single one.
That does not surprise me.
[Reply]
cosmo20002 09:29 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
That's 2 games in a row they really didn't do a ****ing thing. Carr had all ****ing night to throw. Guys are dropping shoulders and not wrapping up. YAC is killing us. Receivers are running wide open.

I will give them some credit in that I thought they stopped the run fairly well against the Raiders.

No pass rush
No tackling
No attitude

WTF?
Will they sniff the playoffs tho?
[Reply]
htismaqe 09:30 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by cosmo20002:
Will they sniff the playoffs tho?
They're going to snort the playoffs, like a mothafucka...
[Reply]
Mecca 09:35 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
well there's a lot of hyperbole.

There's reason for concern; and I'm concerned.

Jones and Clark have a tendency to disappear for stretches of a season, and that's concerning.

Sorensen and Niemann are targeted by opposing offenses, and that's concerning. Bad tackling especially by those two, as well as being complete liabilities in coverage is concerning.

Will they get it together like last year? I hope so. I don't see how Sorensen and Niemann are suddenly going to get better though. It seems they are who they are. Somebody on the roster is going to have to step up and take their snaps.

Willie Gay in for Niemann? I really hope so.

There appears to be nobody to replace Sorensen, who was personally responsible for like 100 of the Raiders yards. (Unscientifically, but I doubt that's an exaggeration.)

So I don't know. I THINK maybe it's time to rotate Saunders in against teams that don't possess top flight running games; I think he gives you a little pass rush that Pennel doesn't although Pennel is a run stuffing beast. Maybe we need to simplify some coverages in order to get the best athletes on the field.

Maybe with Baker coming in you could play more man. The back 7 is just not playing fast right now, especially in the middle of the field. A lot of blown coverages, and a lot of being a step too late.

The pass rush is really the most concerning factor. I get that the Raiders have a great line, but it didn't look great against the Panthers either, and they do not.

So, I'm concerned, but I'm not panicked. Know what I mean?
To be fair we have like 12 DB's the staff likes Sorensen, he's getting more snaps than Thornhill is.
[Reply]
htismaqe 09:37 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Mecca:
To be fair we have like 12 DB's the staff likes Sorensen, he's getting more snaps than Thornhill is.
It's an Andy Reid thing and I'm guessing Spags is of the same school.

They obviously aren't seeing the things they want to see in practice. It's the only explanation for continuing to throw Sorenson, Niemann, and others out there.

Sometimes they're just too cautious about this stuff, I think.
[Reply]
treeguy27 09:39 AM 11-23-2020
The pass rush is the biggest concern. If they get some pressure the back end will look a lot better. I noticed a couple of replays last night where Jones wasn't even really trying to get pressure. He was just hand fighting and trying to knock down the pass when he was being blocked one on one. He has a knack for batting down passes and sometimes relies on that too much. It's fine if he's being doubled and has no chance to get any pressure. When he's being single blocked he needs to beat his man and get to the QB and forget about trying to swat down passes.
[Reply]
Lzen 09:40 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
well there's a lot of hyperbole.

There's reason for concern; and I'm concerned.

Jones and Clark have a tendency to disappear for stretches of a season, and that's concerning.

Sorensen and Niemann are targeted by opposing offenses, and that's concerning. Bad tackling especially by those two, as well as being complete liabilities in coverage is concerning.

Will they get it together like last year? I hope so. I don't see how Sorensen and Niemann are suddenly going to get better though. It seems they are who they are. Somebody on the roster is going to have to step up and take their snaps.

Willie Gay in for Niemann? I really hope so.

There appears to be nobody to replace Sorensen, who was personally responsible for like 100 of the Raiders yards. (Unscientifically, but I doubt that's an exaggeration.)

So I don't know. I THINK maybe it's time to rotate Saunders in against teams that don't possess top flight running games; I think he gives you a little pass rush that Pennel doesn't although Pennel is a run stuffing beast. Maybe we need to simplify some coverages in order to get the best athletes on the field.

Maybe with Baker coming in you could play more man. The back 7 is just not playing fast right now, especially in the middle of the field. A lot of blown coverages, and a lot of being a step too late.

The pass rush is really the most concerning factor. I get that the Raiders have a great line, but it didn't look great against the Panthers either, and they do not.

So, I'm concerned, but I'm not panicked. Know what I mean?
Good post but I would add that Breeland and Matheiu (sp?) didn't play well, either. And the latter wasn't just a tackling issue. He was late or lost in coverage a few times. That is not what I expect to see from a savvy veteran like him.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 09:40 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Mecca:
To be fair we have like 12 DB's the staff likes Sorensen, he's getting more snaps than Thornhill is.
well, it's been surmised that they're bringing Thornhill along slowly post-injury, which makes sense.

Sorensen is in there I think because he's smart and understands the defensive assignments. Same with Niemann.

But he's not athletic enough to carry them out, and he's a shitty tackler. The one or two plays a game that he makes don't make up for the dozen he blows. And it's EVERY GAME.

Is it really better to have a guy who KNOWS but can't get it done than a better athlete that might blow it sometimes but also has enough athleticism to get it done?

Maybe it is, I don't know. But I doubt Sorensen is going to get faster or become a better tackler all of the sudden. The Raiders literally went right at him all night, and that'll be the blueprint until we do something about it.
[Reply]
Mecca 09:41 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
It's an Andy Reid thing and I'm guessing Spags is of the same school.

They obviously aren't seeing the things they want to see in practice. It's the only explanation for continuing to throw Sorenson, Niemann, and others out there.

Sometimes they're just too cautious about this stuff, I think.
You see the change with the drafts in the last few years where we're getting more athletic but we still have some dudes who just don't explode and you can see it plain as day.

Sorenson, Kpass, Niemann, we need athletic upgrades here. We honestly need more athletes at LB because like last night the Raiders completely took advantage of it.
[Reply]
htismaqe 09:41 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by treeguy27:
The pass rush is the biggest concern. If they get some pressure the back end will look a lot better. I noticed a couple of replays last night where Jones wasn't even really trying to get pressure. He was just hand fighting and trying to knock down the pass when he was being blocked one on one. He has a knack for batting down passes and sometimes relies on that too much. It's fine if he's being doubled and has no chance to get any pressure. When he's being single blocked he needs to beat his man and get to the QB and forget about trying to swat down passes.
They need a lot more out of Frank Clark.

Not only does he appear invisible ON the field a lot lately, he's invisible off the field too. No trash talking, no energy. Something is not right there. I sincerely hope he's sick or injured or something.
[Reply]
OKchiefs 09:43 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
well, it's been surmised that they're bringing Thornhill along slowly post-injury, which makes sense.

Sorensen is in there I think because he's smart and understands the defensive assignments. Same with Niemann.

But he's not athletic enough to carry them out, and he's a shitty tackler. The one or two plays a game that he makes don't make up for the dozen he blows. And it's EVERY GAME.

Is it really better to have a guy who KNOWS but can't get it done than a better athlete that might blow it sometimes but also has enough athleticism to get it done?

Maybe it is, I don't know. But I doubt Sorensen is going to get faster or become a better tackler all of the sudden. The Raiders literally went right at him all night, and that'll be the blueprint until we do something about it.
I think it's a little more nuanced than that, because his snap counts from the season show Thornhill is getting fewer snaps than he previously did. He was playing 70-80 snaps a game early in the season, and now he finishes with 11 snaps. That's the opposite of working him in slowly. Either it's performance related, or maybe he still isn't 100% confident in his knee, or maybe the knee has had some swelling or other issues, or something else.
[Reply]
Mecca 09:43 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
They need a lot more out of Frank Clark.

Not only does he appear invisible ON the field a lot lately, he's invisible off the field too. No trash talking, no energy. Something is not right there. I sincerely hope he's sick or injured or something.
I think about 70% of the issue is complacency, these guys are just trying to get to the playoffs.
[Reply]
htismaqe 09:44 AM 11-23-2020
Originally Posted by Mecca:
You see the change with the drafts in the last few years where we're getting more athletic but we still have some dudes who just don't explode and you can see it plain as day.

Sorenson, Kpass, Niemann, we need athletic upgrades here. We honestly need more athletes at LB because like last night the Raiders completely took advantage of it.
It isn't just athleticism at LB. Gay looked lost a good portion of last night. I'm sure he'll be fine but his inexperience really showed at times.
[Reply]
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