CP loves to treat the symptom while at times ignoring the disease.
Since everyone wants to be cool and bash the lame ass QB we have, we might want to look just a little deeper and discuss the HC that hand selected him to be the QB of this team.
We aren't going anywhere with Reid's preparations and game plans. His play calling is pathetic and predictable. His tendency's to remove the WRs from the game plan is inexcusable.
Until we get rid of Reid, we are stuck with Smith... [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Nothing left to argue about and I can only beat off to game film so often. It isn’t that I get bored by it but rather that I’m 39 yrs old and it takes time to mix another batch.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
No he isn't. No he didn't.
This is a guy who had McNabb and Vick under center. A guy who had Kolb. For YEARS he was willing to work with high variance passers. He did a ton of downfield stuff w/ Vick when he had a guy that could make the throws.
Reid didn't learn shit - y'all just didn't want to give him credit for what he knew. You've been shown time and time again how often your 'why is he milking the clock' nonsense was just made up. I've given you drive charts showing how it's just complete bullshit and you'll just keep repeating it.
You've been wrong about the guy for years and you just keep doubling down on it.
You're just ****ing wrong. You've always been wrong. But keep on acting like a dude with a 20 year track record of NFL success just learned how to win overnight.
Zilla is an idiot. Always wrong in both football and political takes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Because this is bullshit right here:
This is the kind of nonsensical backwards argument that comes from someone that just can't admit he was wrong.
No, Reid most assuredly did not 'scrap his WCO' - he's built on it but otherwise uses the same WCO and terminology he's used his whole career. All he's done is bring back some of the spread stuff he was using with Vick because he has a guy with the arm to execute it.
No, Reid going after a young QB was not 'teaching an old dog new tricks' after the guy staked his entire career on drafting McNabb when that was most assuredly not a popular stance. The he turfed McNabb for Vick, who was the very definition of high-risk.
He'd fired his GM before - or at least made a power play and took his job in Philly.
And again, I've gone play for play with you on this ridiculous lead nonsense.
No, this isn't 'new Reid' or any sort of revelation. You just missed the forest for the trees (and that's presuming there were even trees to begin with; I won't give you that).
Don't sit there and pretend like you had him pegged but he turned over a new leaf. You were just wrong. You've always been wrong.
You're reading way too much into one post. I did not intend to say he was too stubborn to do all those things on the list. It is part about an old dog willing to adapt, part about moves many did not expect him to make (moving quickly to replace Alex Smith, replacing Sutton). And yes, I think mahomes helped Andy get better in areas where he historically has not been great like second half situational playcalling. Other than the last part, I can assure you I was way less critical and actually barely critical to Andy than many here. But feel free to show me otherwise. So I have no idea where this narrative that I'm some kind of a hater comes from.
No, I don't think these changes prove any critics or haters right. Most like me felt he was a brilliant coach who just needed a little boost to get over the top. Credit it to brilliantly adapting to the game or credit it to fixing shortcomings... Either way he is a different and better coach than when he first started. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
You're reading way too much into one post. I did not intend to say he was too stubborn to do all those things on the list. It is part about an old dog willing to adapt, part about moves many did not expect him to make (moving quickly to replace Alex Smith, replacing Sutton). And yes, I think mahomes helped Andy get better in areas where he historically has not been great like second half situational playcalling. Other than the last part, I can assure you I was way less critical and actually barely critical to Andy than many here. But feel free to show me otherwise. So I have no idea where this narrative that I'm some kind of a hater comes from.
No, I don't think these changes prove any critics or haters right. Most like me felt he was a brilliant coach who just needed a little boost to get over the top. Credit it to brilliantly adapting to the game or credit it to fixing shortcomings... Either way he is a different and better coach than when he first started.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.
He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.
He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.
He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it
He fired his GM
And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.
He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.
DJ already addressed all of these points, but let me just add on. Andy Reid has been a head coach for 20+ seasons, and you have to be CONSTANTLY changing and adapting and trying new things if you want to last as long as he has in the pros. Hell, just look at Belichick-- it's the exact same story. He's the same coach who set single season offensive records while also fielding some ugly ass pedestrian offensive attacks. One scheme was about throwing bombs to Randy Moss, while the other is about dumping off to James White and letting your dainty old fart QB throw a tantrum about his weapons on the field. He didn't "scrap" the Erhardt-Perkins at all. He acquired new personnel, and he and his offensive coaches schemed up effective plays based on the firepower he had based on what was in his playbook, evolving and adding new stuff to it.
"We" didn't teach Andy jack shit. The last couple of seasons have simply been a continuation of what he has done for 20+ years in this league. He's fired GMs in Philly before. He fired two different defensive coordinators, too-- one of those coaches (Sean McDermott) wasn't even that bad! He loved Donovan McNabb like his own damn son in Philly, and when he thought he had something in Kevin Kolb of all QBs, he traded him to a freaking division rival. And even the Patrick Mahomes plan wasn't a case of Andy learning or figuring something out. It wasn't like he went, "Oh... I get it now! I need to not roll with safe efficient game managers!" He already knew what could be possible because he coached Brett Favre years ago.
Sure, you may have been faithful to him and defended him for years, but it's totally inaccurate the idea that Andy was some bumbling stubborn ex-Holmgren/WCO stooge for 14 years in Philly until the voice of God came to him as a dove in KC one day and sang into his right ear the path to coaching immortality. He's not an old dog who was taught new tricks. He's just an old dog. Period. And how do you get to be an old dog in the NFL? By CONSTANTLY fixing things, adjusting according to the personnel you have on the field, and trying to find and exploit conventional wisdom around the league with new concepts and trends. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
DJ already addressed all of these points, but let me just add on. Andy Reid has been a head coach for 20+ seasons, and you have to be CONSTANTLY changing and adapting and trying new things if you want to last as long as he has in the pros. Hell, just look at Belichick-- it's the exact same story. He's the same coach who set single season offensive records while also fielding some ugly ass pedestrian offensive attacks. One scheme was about throwing bombs to Randy Moss, while the other is about dumping off to James White and letting your dainty old fart QB throw a tantrum about his weapons on the field. He didn't "scrap" the Erhardt-Perkins at all. He acquired new personnel, and he and his offensive coaches schemed up effective plays based on the firepower he had.
"We" didn't teach Andy jack shit. The last couple of seasons have simply been a continuation of what he has done for 20+ years in this league. He's fired GMs in Philly before. He fired two different defensive coordinators, too-- one of those coaches (Sean McDermott) wasn't even that bad! He loved Donovan McNabb like his own damn son in Philly, and when he thought he had something in Kevin Kolb of all QBs, he traded him to a freaking division rival. And even the Patrick Mahomes plan wasn't a case of Andy learning or figuring something out. It wasn't like he went, "Oh... I get it now! I need to not roll with safe efficient game managers!" He already knew what could be possible because he coached Brett Favre years ago.
Sure, you may have been faithful to him and defended him for years, but it's totally inaccurate the idea that Andy was some bumbling stubborn ex-Holmgren/WCO stooge for 14 years in Philly until the voice of God came to him as a dove in KC one day and sang into his right ear the path to coaching immortality. He's not an old dog who was taught new tricks. He's just an old dog. Period. And how do you get to be an old dog in the NFL? By CONSTANTLY fixing things, adjusting according to the personnel you have on the field, and trying to find and exploit conventional wisdom around the league with new concepts and trends.
Sorry, used a catchphrase. Didn't mean for it to be taken literally. Yes, he wasn't taught these things. He wasn't forced to do these things. But he deserves credit for adapting. I think most would say he's adapted way more aggressively than expected and arguably a lot has to do with his burning desire to win a super bowl.The one area I believe he really changed himself, again, is late game management. I believe he trusts mahomes way more than he ever has any other qb. But even that wasn't always the case. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.
He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.
He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.
He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it
He fired his GM
And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.
He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.
Yup.
He suddenly became a better coach at the start of the 2018 season.
It's just a coincidence that mahomes is a star.
Do you really believe this? What's more likely .. that Reid suddenly corrected all of his flaws the same year mahomes took over OR that Reid had actually overachieved with mediocre QBs his whole career and thrived while coaching a great one?
I feel occam's razor applies here.
Andy has always adjusted his scheme to fit the QB. He called games differently with McNabb than he did vick. Same for a jeff Garcia, alex smith, and patrick mahomes.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Sorry, used a catchphrase. Didn't mean for it to be taken literally. Yes, he wasn't taught these things. He wasn't forced to do these things. But he deserves credit for adapting. I think most would say he's adapted way more aggressively than expected and arguably a lot has to do with his burning desire to win a super bowl.The one area I believe he really changed himself, again, is late game management. I believe he trusts mahomes way more than he ever has any other qb. But even that wasn't always the case.
The Chiefs threw the ball for 3 yards in the 4th quarter.
If Watson doesn't throw a pick and Watts doesn't return an onside kick inside the red zone, the Chiefs win 24 to 17 and you're bitching about Andy making it unnecessarily close again.
He's. Changed. Nothing.
He simply has guys that execute better.
Your late game management gripes were unfounded 4 years ago and your 'credit' to Reid is just nonsensical now. He's the same guy - you just didn't realize that your concerns were garbage back when you had them so you don't understand that nothings different now. [Reply]
He suddenly became a better coach at the start of the 2018 season.
It's just a coincidence that mahomes is a star.
Do you really believe this? What's more likely .. that Reid suddenly corrected all of his flaws the same year mahomes took over OR that Reid had actually overachieved with mediocre QBs his whole career?
I feel occam's razor applies here.
He's doubling down on complaints he made a half decade ago instead of just acknowledging that he was wrong about the man. And he's trying to couch it in the guise of an 'attaboy' as though its any less stupid. [Reply]
You will NEVER convince him otherwise. Somehow things have 'changed' rather than him just not understanding what the hell is going on.
That whole thread is a few guys trying to make the same old tired complaints and ignoring every bit of situational decision-making put in front of them. They ignore every time Andy TRIED to go downfield and execution blew it. Or every time he drew up a pass on 3rd down and a guy dropped it. Because he tried a run on 2nd and 6 that lost a couple yards and put them behind the sticks.
This thing has been stupid for so long and it just will not die. Now the same old parties try to argue that he's 'changed' somehow when he absolutely has not. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
He's doubling down on complaints he made a half decade ago instead of just acknowledging that he was wrong about the man. And he's trying to couch it in the guise of an 'attaboy' as though its any less stupid.
I used to have a theory that McNabb, drafted by almost anyone else, is a bust. That Tim Couch and McNabb's careers would invert if they swapped landing spots in that draft.
While I've been up and down on Andy over the years, but I could never shake this belief that mcnabb kinda sucked. McNabb once ran out the clock on OT and tied. Then expressed that he didn't know a tie was possible. McNabb had already played in a tie game! I knew what Alex Smith was. I saw how he transformed Vick.
All mahomes did was prove my theory, which I wasnt even convinced of... that 'clock management" has more to do with qb than coach. I learned that when joe montana showed up in 93 and suddenly Marty's 2 minute offense was effective. [Reply]
You will NEVER convince him otherwise. Somehow things have 'changed' rather than him just not understanding what the hell is going on.
That whole thread is a few guys trying to make the same old tired complaints and ignoring every bit of situational decision-making put in front of them. They ignore every time Andy TRIED to go downfield and execution blew it. Or every time he drew up a pass on 3rd down and a guy dropped it. Because he tried a run on 2nd and 6 that lost a couple yards and put them behind the sticks.
This thing has been stupid for so long and it just will not die. Now the same old parties try to argue that he's 'changed' somehow when he absolutely has not.
He hasn't changed, but Andy isnt static. Hes more refined. As anyone tends to be as they become wiser with experience.
But he didn't learn how to manage a clock. He just has a guy who can convert 3rd and 10+ at a staggering rate instead of a guy who eats a sack on every 3rd and 6. [Reply]
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale:
I used to have a theory that McNabb, drafted by almost anyone else, is a bust. That Tim Couch and McNabb's careers would invert if they swapped landing spots in that draft.
While I've been up and down on Andy over the years, but I could never shake this belief that mcnabb kinda sucked. McNabb once ran out the clock on OT and tied. Then expressed that he didn't know a tie was possible. McNabb had already played in a tie game! I knew what Alex Smith was. I saw how he transformed Vick.
All mahomes did was prove my theory, which I wasnt even convinced of... that 'clock management" has more to do with qb than coach. I learned that when joe montana showed up in 93 and suddenly Marty's 2 minute offense was effective.
Not that I'm disagreeing with your take but the offense was changed to WCO in 93 when Joe arrived. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Lzen:
Not that I'm disagreeing with your take but the offense was changed to WCO in 93 when Joe arrived. :-)
Sorry, but it wasn't just the switch to the WCO. Montana forced a philosophical change as well.
I can still remember that game in the playoffs, when we were down late in the game and didn't convert a 3rd down. Marty immediately signaled for the punting team. Montana ran over and argued with Marty for about 5 seconds, after which Marty thew up his hands and basically said 'okay let's go for it.' Montana ran back onto the field and easily converted that 4th down, and the rest is history.
Marty never would've gone for that 4th down conversion with any other QB except for his total respect for Montana. [Reply]
