Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
What are you talking about? The defense has been very good the past few years. Last year we struggled a little late which is understandable given all the injuries. This season is something entirely different. We're getting beat in ways we haven't before. But let's not take away the fact that this defense has been carrying us most of the Andy Reid era.
Last year Sutton refused to make effective adjustments the same as we are seeing now. I’m glad our talent has been good enough to pull through in the past. It’s not happening this year.
We still have the talent but they are not performing. That’s on the coach. Either the coach is not setting the players up for success or the coach has lost the respect/influence of the players. [Reply]
Originally Posted by 11Chiefs:
Last year Sutton refused to make effective adjustments the same as we are seeing now. I’m glad our talent has been good enough to pull through in the past. It’s not happening this year.
We still have the talent but they are not performing. That’s on the coach. Either the coach is not setting the players up for success or the coach has lost the respect/influence of the players.
The defense didn't struggle last year because of lack of adjustments. Our defense was effective last year and considering the lineup we limped into the playoffs with, we did ok against the Steelers. The defense has carried us for years. Our defense looks shitty this year. We haven't made effective adjustments yet and we maybe never will. But the problem this year is new to this year. Let's not create the BS narrative that this is something that's happened over multiple years. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy:
Robinson was never give a blank check for defense....it was always offense first.
Robinson was also a bad coach though, so it would not have mattered how much talent you gave him.
Give Sutton five Justin Houstons and he will drop them all in coverage....
The overreaction to Houston going into coverage is so ridiculous that dates back to last year when defense wasn't the issue. That's not fireable. The defensive struggles this year are something totally different. Rushing Houston 100% of the time isn't even close to the biggest of our problems nor do I know that it necessarily solves anything. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
What are you talking about? The defense has been very good the past few years.
No it hasn't. The defense has consistently been good at stopping one thing. The pass or the run, but never both. None of this defense's success comes off of scheme. It comes from star players bailing out mediocre schemes with individual moments of brilliance.
And yes, Sutton has had incredible talent to work with. How many pro bowlers a few years ago? Six? This defense has never been good schematically or in attitude.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
The overreaction to Houston going into coverage is so ridiculous that dates back to last year when defense wasn't the issue. That's not fireable. The defensive struggles this year are something totally different. Rushing Houston 100% of the time isn't even close to the biggest of our problems nor do I know that it necessarily solves anything.
Being last in 3rd and long, close to last in rush defense and giving up 28 points a game is completely fireable.
This defense is bad. Hell, they gave up 19 points to Trevor fucking Semen and the Broncos.
This defense is Greg Robinson 2003 Chiefs bad right now. Dallas punted once in the second half, and it was after the game was decided.
Sutton's defenses have always been mediocre to bad against good QB's. Now the defense is just bad against everyone. [Reply]
Originally Posted by jspchief:
No it hasn't. The defense has consistently been good at stopping one thing. The pass or the run, but never both. None of this defense's success comes off of scheme. It comes from star players bailing out mediocre schemes with individual moments of brilliance.
And yes, Sutton has had incredible talent to work with. How many pro bowlers a few years ago? Six? This defense has never been good schematically or in attitude.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
You're trying to use our 2013 roster which caught lining in a bottle early in the season to prove your point?
You're seriously overestimating the talent we've had. Look at the depth charts since 2014. And consider that Berry has missed more than half of the games since 2013 and that Houston has been an injured nonfactor in most of our playoff pushes. In each year, half of our defensive starters were below average. And we have that problem this year.
Scheme covered up personnel in the past years. It's not doing the job this year. It is a problem unique to this year. That's horse shit that scheme was a problem in years past and even bigger horse shit that we've had some kind of talent boom on defense, especially when you consider that most of our star players can't stay on the field. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
You're trying to use our 2013 roster which caught lining in a bottle early in the season to prove your point?
You're seriously overestimating the talent we've had. Look at the depth charts since 2014. And consider that Berry has missed more than half of the games since 2013 and that Houston has been an injured nonfactor in most of our playoff pushes. In each year, half of our defensive starters were below average. And we have that problem this year.
Scheme covered up personnel in the past years. It's not doing the job this year. It is a problem unique to this year. That's horse shit that scheme was a problem in years past and even bigger horse shit that we've had some kind of talent boom on defense, especially when you consider that most of our star players can't stay on the field.
How you can defend Bob Sutton after the complete meltdown of this defense in the last month is incredible. This defense does not have a ton of talent, but the talent is better than the results it is producing---they should not be the worst defense in the NFL...yet here they are. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy:
Being last in 3rd and long, close to last in rush defense and giving up 28 points a game is completely fireable.
This defense is bad. Hell, they gave up 19 points to Trevor ****ing Semen and the Broncos.
This defense is Greg Robinson 2003 Chiefs bad right now. Dallas punted once in the second half, and it was after the game was decided.
Sutton's defenses have always been mediocre to bad against good QB's. Now the defense is just bad against everyone.
I'm not at all defending the defensive play this year. If it continues like this and Sutton has no answers, yes, we need to seriously consider getting rid of him. This is nothing even close to GRob. GRob was fired for multiple years of incompetence. Sutton has been incompetent for a few months. And he has adjusted us out of big defensive messes in the past. I highly doubt a midseason replacement is going to completely turn this defense around. Sutton is still our best option for the big turnaround that we need. And trust me, I don't for a second think what we're doing right now is at all acceptable. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy:
How you can defend Bob Sutton after the complete meltdown of this defense in the last month is incredible. This defense does not have a ton of talent, but the talent is better than the results it is producing---they should not be the worst defense in the NFL...yet here they are.
When have I defended our defensive meltdown? I'm defending the BS revisionist nonsense that this defense was bad before 2017 or that we were overflowing with talent. We've had an effective defense even with marginal talent under Sutton. This year is totally different. We have very, very big problems and scheme is a huge part of that. But that is a problem unique to this year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
I'm not at all defending the defensive play this year. If it continues like this and Sutton has no answers, yes, we need to seriously consider getting rid of him. This is nothing even close to GRob. GRob was fired for multiple years of incompetence. Sutton has been incompetent for a few months. And he has adjusted us out of big defensive messes in the past. I highly doubt a midseason replacement is going to completely turn this defense around. Sutton is still our best option for the big turnaround that we need. And trust me, I don't for a second think what we're doing right now is at all acceptable.
Well, the numbers says otherwise in terms of comparing Sutton's 2017 to Robinson's 2003 defenses. And the 2017 defense is more talented than 2003, in my opinion.
"New York Jets and Bob Sutton: Awful Match
SMUSH HIGGINS
DECEMBER 9, 2008
He shouldn't be smiling; he should be crying. Sutton is awful.
In the last two games, Jets defensive coordinator Bob Sutton has been sending three or four-man rushes every play, and seven or eight coverage defenders. Nothing is ever going to be accomplished if you don't send five to seven blitzers. If they don't, the opponent's rushing game will be gaining four to five yards a carry—so will the passing game.
Teams are more conservative with their passing game, using screen and dump passes. For example, Broncos FB/RB Peyton Hillis was killing the Jets on the ground two weeks ago, and still Sutton sent the four-man rush. San Francisco QB Shaun Hill had a great passing day last week and had five seconds of time to throw and guess what...NO PASS RUSH! [Reply]
Originally Posted by Coach:
Well, the numbers says otherwise in terms of comparing Sutton's 2017 to Robinson's 2003 defenses. And the 2017 defense is more talented than 2003, in my opinion.
???
Robinson's 2009 early defense was one of the top in the NFL. Are you really trying to use those 9 games as some kind of representation of Robinson's defense? Those games were a total fluke. Just like Sutton's 2013 first 9 games. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Sutton's defense has been solid for about 75-80% of his time in KC. Robinson's defense looked good for a few games one season. That's the difference.
I don't know that anybody at all likes what Sutton's defense looks like right now. It looks atrocious. He has to make a big adjustment. But in my book he's earned the right to at least have some time to try to fix this. It's a better option than trying to make a switch midseason.
17,465 days since we last attended a SB and he's had weeks, enough is enough. And allowing corners and safeties to play that far off, dropping rushers in to coverage, and rushing three isn't a sign that he's going to do any fixing. He's fucking blind or stupid. Outside of Peters there's no part of our D that's good, that's fucking terrible.
Quit kissing his ass. Unfounded loyalty is why we're at 17,465 days man! [Reply]