Anybody catch the first episode last night? Interesting background on Ho Chi Mihn. I knew some of that back story, but not all of it. The French are total assholes. I can see why the Vietnamese people hated them. Actually, my French Teacher at Mizzou was a Vietnamese guy in a wheelchair who had fought for South Vietnam in the war. He was fluent in French because his father worked for the French in Saigon.
Next chapter is on tonight. One of the American Soldiers they talked to who was a Marine went to my High School (Van Horn) in Independence. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
I was 6-7 years old when I watched protesters spitting on soldiers returning from Vietnam. When I asked why, I couldn't understand why. The soldiers were drafted. They had to serve or go to jail. Why were the protesters blaming them? Seemed out of whack to me.
That started my life long commitment to help vets. Started going to the VFW at first to help out at events as much as a 6-7 year old can anyway.
The protestors directing their actions toward the soldiers was hopelessly and incredibly WRONG. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
The protestors directing their actions toward the soldiers was hopelessly and incredibly WRONG.
Ar least we learned that lesson. People separated the opposition to the Iraq war from the soldiers fighting the war. Overall the Iraq soldiers were treated like the heroes they were when they returned home. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
Ar least we learned that lesson. People separated the opposition to the Iraq war from the soldiers fighting the war. Overall the Iraq soldiers were treated like the heroes they were when they returned home.
Yes. Reducing the number of civilian casualties also helped, as the perception of the American public wasn't that our boys were "baby-killers" and stuff like that.
I really like how many who defend the Vietnam War think we were too soft. That we just needed to have more troops over there, and bomb MORE, and ramp up our aggressiveness. So incredibly stupid it doesn't bear mentioning. Just look at the Russians in Afghanistan. It didn't work for them, and it wouldn't have worked for us, even if we were willing to become completely amoral.
"We had to destroy the village to save it." :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
maybe it works in North Vietnam for war heroes?
Originally Posted by gblowfish:
He's the NVA's version of Little Richard.
Maybe if you march from Hanoi to Saigon with the NVA, you get a pass in Vietnam. Either that, or everyone knows not to cross a guy who marched from Hanoi to Saigon. [Reply]
One of the greatest takeaways for me personally (besides the atrocity of the war itself and the powerful personal narratives) was the total selfishness of all 3 Presidents during this time period.
You hear Kennedy, LBJ, and Nixon all admit they won't have good chances (or chances at all) at reelection if they pull out.
Kennedy was just such a fucking hypocrite ("ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country")
annnnnd is worried about his reelection chances over American lives….what a fucking asshole. [Reply]
I never knew Nixon conspired with the Saigon government to torpedo the peace talks right before the election. Promising a better deal if they sabotaged the talks. Johnson finds out through wire taps and tells the Republican leader of the Senate of the treason. Nixon lies to Johnson but Johnson doesn't tell the American people.
We could have possibly ended the war and Nixon committed treason to sabotage the effort. Poor decision on Johnsons part to not tell the American people. [Reply]
Originally Posted by AssEaterChief:
Great series, I'm on episode 9 now.
One of the greatest takeaways for me personally (besides the atrocity of the war itself and the powerful personal narratives) was the total selfishness of all 3 Presidents during this time period.
You hear Kennedy, LBJ, and Nixon all admit they won't have good chances (or chances at all) at reelection if they pull out.
Kennedy was just such a fucking hypocrite ("ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country")
annnnnd is worried about his reelection chances over American lives….what a fucking asshole.
Wait, you're focused on KENNEDY?!? Are you f'ing serious? You do know when he was shot, right?
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
I never knew Nixon conspired with the Saigon government to torpedo the peace talks right before the election. Promising a better deal if they sabotaged the talks. Johnson finds out through wire taps and tells the Republican leader of the Senate of the treason. Nixon lies to Johnson but Johnson doesn't tell the American people.
We could have possibly ended the war and Nixon committed treason to sabotage the effort. Poor decision on Johnsons part to not tell the American people.
My memory on this is that there was ALOT of smoke, but not alot of fire, in the sense of verification that this happened. Has there been any newly discovered evidence that Nixon did in fact undermine the Paris peace talks? [Reply]
