More trade news: The #Chiefs are deep in talks with the #49ers on a trade for star pass-rusher Dee Ford, sources say. Things have escalated and this could get done by the end of the night. Ford needs to work out a new contract with SF, which is a big piece of this.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
That's my frustration - the lack of value on the 'now' from folks celebrating this deal.
All anyone wants to talk about is that we turned a potential 2021 comp pick into a 2020 2nd rounder. Okay...but we lost our best pass-rusher and probably the best pure pass rusher in the league last season.
This 'he's a speed rusher' stuff is ridiculous. Ford came into the league as a speed rusher but he was absolutely capable of beating guys in several ways as he developed. He started using that lever/stiff-arm that Houston was so good with last season. He developed a true rip move that would allow him to get inside guys. Shit, he demonstrated a bull rush on several occasions. His footwork was great and his hand skills were improved to the point of very good, if not elite.
Ford was a straight up, bad-ass pass-rusher last season. He wasn't Bruce Irvin needing to line up wide and run fast around lead-footed tackles to succeed. He was able to convert speed to power and use the threat of speed to get inside guys. He was a genuinely dynamic, elite pass-rusher.
That has a TON of value, if only for a single season. And no, he wasn't a disaster against the run either. He was below average if you ran straight at him but he was outstanding as a pursuit defender which made running away from him a trick. He had a clear weakness - he wasn't outstanding at setting the edges on runs to his side, but now you're in a 4-3 where that weakness could be obviated somewhat by having a Will right behind him to clean up or fill.
But it's done. And our GM has demonstrated a pattern of extremely questionable FA acquisitions. And the market is pretty much barren at this point.
So do I want to trust our pass-rush to Chris Jones in a new role and some late-round rookie? No - but it's the best of bad options now that we've dealt our best pass-rusher for a middling return.
Originally Posted by O.city:
That's fine, balancing the books.
But they're talking like this is a big super bowl push year. IF that's the case, relying on draft picks at the back end of each round seems pretty optimistic.
With the change to a 4-3 defense I think they expect to get production from Hitchens, KPass, and Speaks along with Chris Jones and Honey Badger.
Fielding a respectable defense shouldn't be THAT hard. [Reply]
It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they're trying to push it all in. Quite frankly, this should have all been done last year if that was the plan.
I've got to believe there is another big move or two coming. Flipping some picks for and extending current players elsewhere.
If they could turn Dee Ford into say, Clowney on a long term deal, ok. That makes sense.
The alternative just doesn't and reeks of a year late a dollar short.
Which is exactly what I was saying about the Matthieu signing. And what worries me about the Berry signing. And the inevitable bad deal he's probably going to give some 2nd tier FA in the coming days.
Veach's long-term planning looks exceptionally suspect to me. I simply don't see a guy who's thinking more than 3-4 months down the road and even then, I'm not sure what exactly he may be thinking about.
This just makes me awfully nervous given how the Andy's Eagles tenure went. He went from a coach, to a guy with a puppet GM, to the GM. And right now he's on stage 2 here. Veach looks a lot like a guy who's just dancing to Reid's tune and Reid has demonstrated that he's simply a bad GM.
Right now I see a team reacting. For all the 'We got Matthieu!' stuff, how hard is it to just keep clicking 'bid' during an auction? Because that's what he did - he just decided to keep going over Houston's offers. Well shit, there's nothing impressive about that. You or I could do that. You want to impress me, go sign Matthieu BEFORE you have to get in a bidding war for him coming off a worse season than he had in 2017.
Hitchens could actually still develop into that kind of signing if you're willing to give him a mulligan for a year he spent in a system that he's not cut out for. Getting Fuller to sign at a reasonable rate before watching him explode forward in Spags scheme this year could potentially qualify.
But I look at his ledger right now and I see a significantly worse GM than the one he replaced. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
With the change to a 4-3 defense I think they expect to get production from Hitchens, KPass, and Speaks along with Chris Jones and Honey Badger.
Fielding a respectable defense shouldn't be THAT hard.
Going into a year you think you're a legit SB contender and relying on Kpassagnon and Speaks to be your pass rushers, seems...…..odd.
They can expect that, but that's pretty frickin outlandish. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
Just shut up already dude. Mathieu was the best ‘slot cover corner’ in football just a few years ago. This even according to PFF.
You’re clueless.
So, then you agree that Dee Ford is elite since PFF is an authority then, right?
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Which is exactly what I was saying about the Matthieu signing. And what worries me about the Berry signing. And the inevitable bad deal he's probably going to give some 2nd tier FA in the coming days.
Veach's long-term planning looks exceptionally suspect to me. I simply don't see a guy who's thinking more than 3-4 months down the road and even then, I'm not sure what exactly he may be thinking about.
This just makes me awfully nervous given how the Andy's Eagles tenure went. He went from a coach, to a guy with a puppet GM, to the GM. And right now he's on stage 2 here. Veach looks a lot like a guy who's just dancing to Reid's tune and Reid has demonstrated that he's simply a bad GM.
Right now I see a team reacting. For all the 'We got Matthieu!' stuff, how hard is it to just keep clicking 'bid' during an auction? Because that's what he did - he just decided to keep going over Houston's offers. Well shit, there's nothing impressive about that. You or I could do that. You want to impress me, go sign Matthieu BEFORE you have to get in a bidding war for him coming off a worse season than he had in 2017.
Hitchens could actually still develop into that kind of signing if you're willing to give him a mulligan for a year he spent in a system that he's not cut out for. Getting Fuller to sign at a reasonable rate before watching him explode forward in Spags scheme this year could potentially qualify.
But I look at his ledger right now and I see a significantly worse GM than the one he replaced.
Dorsey definitely was a good talent evaluator. So far, neither of them seem to be the best contract negotiator but in the NFL, guys get paid, especially good players. That part I get and it kind of is what it is.
Again, if this is a reset year to get the books in order for Mahomes and such going forward, that's fine. I get it.
But probably don't go singing safeties to huge deals first? I dunno, I'm hoping there are more moves to come that would make more sense. If you turn Houston, Ford, and whoevers, money and picks into say, Rhodes and a top flight pass rusher, fine.
Originally Posted by O.city:
Going into a year you think you're a legit SB contender and relying on Kpassagnon and Speaks to be your pass rushers, seems...…..odd.
They can expect that, but that's pretty frickin outlandish.
I'm not as down on Speaks as others are, he reminds me of a young Ford as far as development curve goes and he showed flashes last year. DE will be a much better fit for him.
Like I said all we need is a respectable defense. [Reply]
He was borderline elite this year strictly as a pass rusher. An amazing contract season for sure. I do think his think his stats such as pressures were inflated by having a lot more attempts than maybe most players do, and his win % would reflect that.
But you’re not an elite player when your game is pretty one dimensional. [Reply]
He was elite last year but if you aren't willing to sign him long term (which I was against) you take what you can get and move on. It's that simple. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Dorsey definitely was a good talent evaluator. So far, neither of them seem to be the best contract negotiator but in the NFL, guys get paid, especially good players. That part I get and it kind of is what it is.
Again, if this is a reset year to get the books in order for Mahomes and such going forward, that's fine. I get it.
But probably don't go singing safeties to huge deals first? I dunno, I'm hoping there are more moves to come that would make more sense. If you turn Houston, Ford, and whoevers, money and picks into say, Rhodes and a top flight pass rusher, fine.
But again, just seems reactive
Here's the thing with Dorsey - his poor contract history is overstated and you can point all this shit out all you want but nobody listens.
Bowe was a bad contract that he was lucky to be able to escape as easily as he did; no argument there. But that's a product of having a barren cupboard when he got here. He had no choice but to get Bowe signed and Bowe's deal was reasonable when signed. He couldn't have known that Bowe would just shut it down because what experience did he have with the man? And there was literally nobody in the wings behind him - that WR corps sucked WITH Bowe; they had to presume reasonably representative production from him in trying to assemble it going forward. They did and Bowe mailed it in. But you can't hold Bowe's personality against Dorsey - he'd just gotten there. All you can do is look at what he had on hand, what he was asked to do (build a credible team) and what his available options were. Bowe's deal was completely defensible in real time.
The Houston thing was on Houston's camp as much as Dorsey's. Let's not forget that Dorsey tried hard to get Houston extended prior to his breakout season. Houston's camp said they wouldn't do so for less than Watt money so Dorsey made Houston prove he was that level of player. Houston did. We extended him to, by all accounts, the same deal he was requesting the year prior. And then he got !@#$ing hurt, man. Shit happens.
Dorsey TRIED not to do the Berry deal and got cut off at the knees for it. Clark fucked us there, not Dorsey.
And on Maclin, the dude was excoriated for cutting Maclin and clearing $10 million in real time. But it was obviously the right move.
The truly terrible one was Hali and DJ's wasn't much worse. But I believe he had a handshake agreement with DJ and that's why he so willingly gave money back. The damage DJ did to our cap is overstated because people ignore his restructure. As for Hali, that was obviously a panic move after Houston's knee simply didn't respond. Was it stupid? Yep, but that was the only move on his ledger that was, IMO, stupid of his own making. Well that and not cutting Colquitt or Daniel to free up some smaller chunks here and there.
Dorsey's cap shortcomings are overstated. He was tasked with turning an embarrassingly shitty franchise into a respectable squad immediately - and he DID. To have done that in a single season while jettisoning a whole bunch of shit from Pioli and to have a cap that was a single-season of irritation away from being in pretty good shape was quite the feat. And it would've been even more impressive had Clark not gotten his dumb-ass involved on the Berry decision.
Dorsey's an excellent GM, IMO. Veach is a scout and a puppet. For all the credit that Veach gets for scouting Mahomes (and he should get plenty), I'm not convinced that he'd have gotten the deal made that Dorsey got made to even go up there and get him. Dorsey is simply a better facilitator than Veach is, IMO. [Reply]