Originally Posted by Bill Brasky:
I don't see any chance we get two firsts. I would take that in a heartbeat.
Let's talk more realistic. How about a first and a third?
There is a huge difference in a high first or a low first. Mid to low first is probably what your looking at from Minnesota so you would want at least something close to what we gave up for Clark. (throw in a 2nd or 3rd) Edit- He is under a nonexclusive tag so the Vikings fan might be saying two firsts automatically gets him, if you agree to a contract with Jones and why bother negotiating with the Chiefs.
But that assumes you believe the holdout rumors and that his market will be worse in the off season. I would roll the dice that he plays this year under the tag and deal him before next years draft. Might as well go for the ring.
Push the can down the road by extending Landlord and Kelce and creating money (Justified)
Big key for us is Niang. If he can be a solid replacement for Fisher in 2021, then that would go a long way for us to have $13 million to put towards Chris.
Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88:
Bottom line is Mahomes gives the Chiefs the luxury/buffer of not needing to be great (and pay for top level talent) at every position.
Chris Jones and probably any non-PMIII player is not worth $20 million/year with this new reality.
Sorry for this comparison non-royals fans, but Chris Jones has always felt like the Eric Hosmer of the Chiefs 2019-2020 team.
He brings an uncharacteristic skillset to his position and the team and is just, unbelievably clutch in the biggest moments. I mean three knockdowns in the 4th quarter? Two that prevent sure completions to Kittle - one of which would have extended the Niners drive when we were down 20-17 and conceivably could have ended the game for us. Not only that, the Niners were so worried about Jones on passing plays that they triple teamed him and he still managed a knockdown. I mean holy ****. That is legendary stuff right there, just like Eric Hosmer going 0-3 with 3 lazy groundouts before becoming Babe Ruth in the bottom of the 9th inning down 2 runs.
Like Hosmer, Chris Jones struggles at the fundamentals of the position. There are two schools of thought about this. Keysor, for example, believes Jones more than makes up for it with his pass rushing, and that because of the Chiefs high powered offense, this more than makes up for Jones' struggles on running D. Kollmann, OTOH, disagrees, specifically because Jones is such a liability on running defense that other players have to compensate for Jones' weaknesses. This is especially a problem if the Chiefs have so much money locked up in Jones that they can't afford to lock up talent in other positions on the defense. Similar to Hosmer, some have suggested that Jones' strengths won't age well, and that the moment he loses a step his pass rushing will take a major hit, and that his lack of fundamentals on rushing defense would make him a complete liability on defense. We saw this happen with Hosmer the instant he got his new contract, as once his raw talent lost a step he took major steps back at the plate and on defense.
Now, there's always the chance that Jones will continue to be an absolute pass rushing force, and if that's the case, whoever gives him 5/105 money will be in good shape for a long time - but there's always a chance that the cynics will prove to be right (like they were with Hosmer) and that a contract like that will prove to be an albatross quite quickly. Like Hosmer, I'll forever love Jones and what he did to get us a title, but I think I'm going to be supportive of whatever the Chiefs decide to do in this case. Jones even has that Hosmer like swag on the D, getting in Brady's face was the stuff of champions in Foxboro this year, as was him arising at the best possible moment in the SB (and forcing that early INT off of Jimmy G).
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
Sorry for this comparison non-royals fans, but Chris Jones has always felt like the Eric Hosmer of the Chiefs 2020 team.
He brings an uncharacteristic skillset to the team and is just, unbelievably clutch in the biggest moments. I mean three knockdowns in the 4th quarter? Two that prevent sure completions to Kittle - one of which would have extended the Niners drive when we were down 20-17 and conceivably could have ended the game for us. Not only that, the Niners were so worried about Jones on passing plays that they triple teamed him and he still managed a knockdown. I mean holy ****. That is legendary stuff right there, just like Eric Hosmer going 0-3 with 3 lazy groundouts before becoming Babe Ruth in the bottom of the 9th inning down 2 runs.
Like Hosmer, Chris Jones struggles at the fundamentals of the position. There are two schools of thought about this. Keysor, for example, believes Jones more than makes up for it with his pass rushing, and that because of the Chiefs high powered offense, this more than makes up for Jones' struggles on running D. Kollmann, OTOH, disagrees, specifically because Jones is such a liability on running defense that other players have to compensate for Jones' weaknesses. This is especially a problem if the Chiefs have so much money locked up in Jones that they can't afford to lock up talent in other positions on the defense. Similar to Hosmer, some have suggested that Jones' strengths won't age well, and that the moment he loses a step his pass rushing will take a major hit, and that his lack of fundamentals on rushing defense would make him a complete liability on defense.
Now, there's always the chance that Jones will continue to be an absolute pass rushing force, and if that's the case, whoever gives him 5/105 money will be in good shape for a long time - but there's always a chance that the cynics will prove to be right (like they were with Hosmer) and that a contract like that will prove to be an albatross quite quickly. Like Hosmer, I'll forever love Jones and what he did to get us a title, but I think I'm going to be supportive of whatever the Chiefs decide to do in this case. Jones even has that Hosmer like swag on the D, getting in Brady's face was the stuff of legends in Foxboro this year, as was him arising at the best possible moment in the SB (and forcing that early INT off of Jimmy G).
Great post. Thanks for that.
The 3 options are:
1. Force him to play on Franchise tag (if he plays), but risk team morale and also have diminished leverage in 2021
2. Trade him while his value will never be higher, but lose a critical star player
3. Sign him to a long-term and deal, but have cap limitations for future years
Originally Posted by Dante84:
Great post. Thanks for that.
The 3 options are:
1. Force him to play on Franchise tag (if he plays), but risk team morale and also have diminished leverage in 2021
2. Trade him while his value will never be higher, but lose a critical star player
What's your preference?
That’s a tough one, for me it all depends on what’s being offered in return. I honestly think the DeForest Buckner trade kneecapped the Chiefs leverage in multiple ways. I'm guessing the Chiefs would have never sent Jones to an ascending AFC competitor like the Colts for obvious reason (which never made the Colts a viable trading partner) But the move also locked in Jones price at 21m/year (which the Chiefs seem against spending) and it also may have ended the Chiefs hopes of other teams getting into a bidding war for Jones’ services. I worry that the compensation for a trade at this point will be in the Marcus Peters range (2nd and a 4th) rather than in the Buckner range.
If the Chiefs DO get a 1st round offer from an NFC team, I wonder if the Chiefs would take it. For one, it prevents Jones from going to an AFC rival and gives Chiefs some control over where he goes, but if the Chiefs are only getting marginal offers for Jones, I think the Chiefs should go with the tag and maybe offer a 1/22 deal as an olive branch to max out his year compensation. This gives them the option to reassess their cap space after locking up Mahomes and if the NFL adds significantly more room after next season. My biggest fear with this scenario is that it could allow Jones to become the 2020's Neil Smith and go straight to the Raiders or another AFC heavy hitter, and with our weaknesses on the IOL that is straight up nightmare fuel to imagine Jones going after Pat 2-3 times a year. Luckily, we now have the star QB on our roster who can over come taking that type of pressure in high stakes situations, but it's still not a scenario that's fun to think about.
But, if the Chiefs surprise everyone with a 5/105 deal, I won’t be against that either. I have complete faith in the Chiefs FO at this point.
Dominique Foxworth made a great point. With Jones on the field opposing QBs QBR are 32 which is basically Mason Rudolph. With Jones off the field QBs are 64 which is Carson Wentz. He single handedly changes this defense
Is it possible to restructure the contract so that:
- it's the exact same scenario as the tag and retains the ability to retag next year
- but pays him 21-22million this year?
If so, that could be a win-win. He gets more money immediately, can get to his next contract and still cash in within 1-2 years, and we can double-tag him next year, extend him, or trade him.
I'm perfectly fine with him sitting out this year or whatever. I have been against giving him a big money deal from the start. Does he get to the QB and cause havoc in passing situations...yes. Is he absolutely terrible against the run...a much bigger yes. I don't know if he just doesn't like playing against the run, but if you watch him on tape he looks like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men." Just completely lost and never gap sound. Ends up in the backfield as the RB is already past the line of scrimmage. Frank Clark is a complete player. He is as good against the run as he is pressuring the QB. I don't care if we get nothing for him either if it means not signing him long-term. We've seen enough of these big money signings that we should have learned our lesson by now. I like the guy and he is entertaining, we might not have won the Super Bowl without the batted balls in the 4th, but I think we would have still found a way. Just watch the tape and if you disagree with my take on him that's your right, but there is no denying he is a liability against the run. I don't know why I think this about the man, but he just seems like a guy who's performance falls off a cliff once he gets paid. Or maybe I have watched the Chiefs (pre-Veach) make signings that were all disasters. There's the paying Pat factor, but I don't think the Chiefs are seriously considering signing him long-term. Think they are saying one more year and we're done. If CJ wants to pass on $16 million for one year then I am fine with him being a moron. Either way I hope that they don't sign him long-term. No right or wrong opinions on this deal just like there is no obvious correct solution.
Chiefs re-sign Jones to 5/106 with a 20m signing bonus...and no football is played due to this virus. That’s a real possibility. The first part of any contract is fully guaranteed...then the cap hits gradually go up. We will have lost that advantage.
At the same time, if the salary cap stays flat from this thing...Mahomes comes first. Period.
Can’t sign Chris and chance making negotiations with Mahomes difficult.
Bad timing for Chris. If I’m him, I sign that tender and go to work before they possibly cancel the season and KC pulls the tag.
