MU ****Official 2018 Missouri Tigers Football Thread**** - Page 43

Billay,

If you're interested in what duncan is talking about, watch The Pruitt-Igoe Myth
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
People of color from the traditionally black neighborhoods of St. Louis have a tough relationship with the West and South county suburbs of their own cities. There are huge racism issues in St. Louis because it is perhaps the greatest example of white flight in the Midwest. The whole city vs. county dynamic is horrible in St. Louis.

And I get it.

If I’m a person of color living in Florissant who saw my in-City suburb become a total POS because all the white folks fled to the counties when schools desegregated, and that tax revenue/stable family dynamic fled with them to an area where it isn’t used for anything but the county, that would be a tough pill to swallow and just get along as neighbors and residents of the same city.

That carries over to Mizzou impressions. Because in addition to all the suburban kids from St. Louis who go there, you also have a large percentage of rural kids who grew up in extremely homogeneous communities going there, and there are tensions there, too.

Norm Stewart’s reputation also is a factor. He was the face of Mizzou for a long time, and was extremely disliked in St. Louis City.

And yes, the mentality is bullshit. For every Ezekiel Elliott who goes out of state and blows up, there are a dozen or more kids who went out of state to be “bigger than Mizzou” and get screwed over/recruited over in ways that wouldn’t happen at the home state school.

This makes alot more sense. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
People of color from the traditionally black neighborhoods of St. Louis have a tough relationship with the West and South county suburbs of their own cities. There are huge racism issues in St. Louis because it is perhaps the greatest example of white flight in the Midwest. The whole city vs. county dynamic is horrible in St. Louis.

I've never bothered to look into this terribly closely, but I have to believe there is some sort of state-wide measure that could be taken to just hammer that goddamn incorporation measure through.

The citizens of County/City will never do it. The County sees the City (perhaps justifiably) as an economic sinkhole that will siphon off tons of tax-dollars to little yield for the citizens of the county. Meanwhile the city residents have developed such deep seeded resentment towards the county that they've kinda developed a 'fuck you, we'll sit here in squalor before we accept your help' mentality.

At some point the rational actors with no dogs in the fight need to recognize how damaging letting the City fall into disrepair has been for the entire area and frankly it hurts the reputation of the state as a whole.

Surely there can be some sort of statewide legislative action that can simply run over the stalwarts in the city/county that refuse to consider incorporation. They have to do something drastic if there is any hope of pulling the City out of its tailspin. Simply gentrifying a few areas around the ballpark and calling it a day isn't doing anything but making people in the region more entrenched.
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Billay,

If you're interested in what duncan is talking about, watch The Pruitt-Igoe Myth

I'll check this out tonight. I knew things were bad in St.Louis but was totally oblivious just how bad. The Ferguson riots make a little more sense now.
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Originally Posted by Titty Meat:
I'll check this out tonight. I knew things were bad in St.Louis but was totally oblivious just how bad. The Ferguson riots make a little more sense now.

I don’t really follow Mizzou or college sports in general, but I find this discussion very interesting. I grew up in KC (Lee’s Summit) and spent many of my summers growing up in Columbia where my dad lived. I never really liked Columbia that much because it seemed like it was just an extension of St Louis. I remember everyone there being all about St Louis and acting like KC didn’t exist. I visited Mizzou as a senior but decided to stay at home and go to UMKC after basically getting the same treatment from the school. This was also during the Norm Stewart era, although I still get that same vibe when I go back and visit my relatives in Columbia.
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Curious about Kelly Bryant being in tomorrow...wonder how good of a shot we have at him, would love to see it happen.
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Originally Posted by Spott:
I don’t really follow Mizzou or college sports in general, but I find this discussion very interesting. I grew up in KC (Lee’s Summit) and spent many of my summers growing up in Columbia where my dad lived. I never really liked Columbia that much because it seemed like it was just an extension of St Louis. I remember everyone there being all about St Louis and acting like KC didn’t exist. I visited Mizzou as a senior but decided to stay at home and go to UMKC after basically getting the same treatment from the school. This was also during the Norm Stewart era, although I still get that same vibe when I go back and visit my relatives in Columbia.

Missouri State is the same way with the vibe towards St. Louis as well. The reason for that is there isn't very many traditional public residential universities on the central and eastern side of the state. Granted St. Louis is the largest population area but the students from there go to Mizzou and Missouri State because they are the closest traditional public universities to go to. Kansas City area - half of it is on the Kansas side plus all the other universities within an hour of metro - CMSU, Northwest and Missouri Western. That divides out the Kansas City population even thinner.
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
People of color from the traditionally black neighborhoods of St. Louis have a tough relationship with the West and South county suburbs of their own cities. There are huge racism issues in St. Louis because it is perhaps the greatest example of white flight in the Midwest. The whole city vs. county dynamic is horrible in St. Louis.

And I get it.

If I’m a person of color living in Florissant who saw my in-City suburb become a total POS because all the white folks fled to the counties when schools desegregated, and that tax revenue/stable family dynamic fled with them to an area where it isn’t used for anything but the county, that would be a tough pill to swallow and just get along as neighbors and residents of the same city.

That carries over to Mizzou impressions. Because in addition to all the suburban kids from St. Louis who go there, you also have a large percentage of rural kids who grew up in extremely homogeneous communities going there, and there are tensions there, too.

Norm Stewart’s reputation also is a factor. He was the face of Mizzou for a long time, and was extremely disliked in St. Louis City.

And yes, the mentality is bullshit. For every Ezekiel Elliott who goes out of state and blows up, there are a dozen or more kids who went out of state to be “bigger than Mizzou” and get screwed over/recruited over in ways that wouldn’t happen at the home state school.

Don't you think the hands-up-don't-shoot rabble rousers who came to Mizzou to stir up trouble in the wake of the Ferguson protests 3 years ago have something to do with it?
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Originally Posted by patteeu:
Don't you think the hands-up-don't-shoot rabble rousers who came to Mizzou to stir up trouble in the wake of the Ferguson protests 3 years ago have something to do with it?

Nah, not as much as you think.

The perception pre-dates CS1950 and their bullshit by decades.

It might have had an impact for a recruiting cycle or two, but it's largely washed out, IMO. Besides, Pinkel's actions (and by extension Odom's perception) aligned with the rabble-rousers.

I don't believe the CS1950 crap had much, if any, impact on recruiting for Mizzou.
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Originally Posted by patteeu:
Don't you think the hands-up-don't-shoot rabble rousers who came to Mizzou to stir up trouble in the wake of the Ferguson protests 3 years ago have something to do with it?

No.

I’ve been closely following recruiting for 20 years. This has always been an issue with St. Louis recruits for Mizzou, at least in that timeframe. It isn’t a modern phenomenon from what I understand, either, in talking to those who have followed it longer.

Missouri only gets a reasonable share of St. Louis recruits when the program is winning at high levels and the coach is respected.

The protests might have given another convenient excuse for someone to go away, but it’s just an excuse, not a cause for the disconnect.

The only people still generally affected by the protests are those who opposed them. And those people don’t typically have children who are being recruited to play football at Mizzou.

The causative conditions and perceptions that led to the CS1950 group in the first place (extreme minority population, under-represented in student body and faculty, treatment by majority, etc) are also factors in why many in the minority communities in St. Louis aren’t all-in in Mizzou.
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And they gave Snell a favorable spot...still short
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Kelly Bryant here watching #Mizzou go through pregame warmups. pic.twitter.com/eXQnDzwd0h
— Anne Rogers (@anne__rogers) October 27, 2018

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Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat:

Kelly Bryant here watching #Mizzou go through pregame warmups. pic.twitter.com/eXQnDzwd0h
— Anne Rogers (@anne__rogers) October 27, 2018

That would be nice.
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Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
Missouri State is the same way with the vibe towards St. Louis as well. The reason for that is there isn't very many traditional public residential universities on the central and eastern side of the state. Granted St. Louis is the largest population area but the students from there go to Mizzou and Missouri State because they are the closest traditional public universities to go to. Kansas City area - half of it is on the Kansas side plus all the other universities within an hour of metro - CMSU, Northwest and Missouri Western. That divides out the Kansas City population even thinner.

Same with Drury, to an extent. Traditional undergrads were mostly St. Louisians and Springfieldians... which Springfield itself is a wannabe St. Louis.

I'd guess it's at least 1.5 if not 2 to 1 on STL to KC kids while I was there.
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Lock missing everyone by a half step or so.
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