Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The perfect cautionary tale for Brandon Woodruff.
If you have one good pitch and it's a fastball, you'd better hope you never get hurt. Not even once. And if your team offers you a 5-year extension for anything remotely approaching 'market' value - take it. Because if/when you lose 2 mph on that fastball, you're a sitting duck.
99 with impeccable command is a hell of a plan A, but having a Plan B is a pretty big deal.
His curve and slider were both positive value pitches before the thoracic outlet surgery. It just absolutely ruined him.
I think at this point that injury is basically the end of the road. I can't think of someone who has come back from it remotely healthy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Doesn’t address LF. We signed 3 broken down bums Vince Coleman, Dave Henderson and Hubie Brooks. Woof.
But let’s talk DH. Conine and Hammer both played at Omaha in 1992. Conine was 25 Hammer 24. Conine hit .302 with 20 jacks and Hammer batted .200 with 5hr (after being promoted from AA where he hit well).
No clue why the team would prefer the DH to the OF. And Hammer was limited anyway - We refused to play Hammer vs LH anyway (1100 career AB vs righties, 184 vs lefties).
Michael Tucker and Johnny Damon were close to being ready in the pipeline got to remember that. I think Tucker came up in 1995. I'm pretty sure I remember him playing the year after the strike.
But yes Connie was a dumb move letting go. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
His curve and slider were both positive value pitches before the thoracic outlet surgery. It just absolutely ruined him.
I think at this point that injury is basically the end of the road. I can't think of someone who has come back from it remotely healthy.
I think Chris Young gave us a lot of false confidence with that surgery, but he was never a 200 IP starter anyway (and relied a lot on the angle/release point, rather than his sheer "stuff").
The list of starters who haven't come close to even reaching Young's success from that surgery has expanded exponentially since 2016. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
His curve and slider were both positive value pitches before the thoracic outlet surgery. It just absolutely ruined him.
I think at this point that injury is basically the end of the road. I can't think of someone who has come back from it remotely healthy.
There have been a handful of successful returns, but yeah - seems about 10-1 against.
And perhaps the weirdest one of all may be the most fun - Daniel Bard. Remember that guy? Just a monster in relief for a couple years, BoSox tried to start him, he got the yips and then just came unglued.
Had surgery for TOS in '13 and tried to come back with the Rangers and Cardinals. In 13 minor league innings he walked 46 guys. I'm frankly amazed he managed to retire 39 at any point.
Out of nowhere he shows up in Colorado's spring camp this year, 3 years removed from any kind of professional baseball, pitches his way onto the team and has walked 1 guy in 11 innings so far w/ thoroughly respectable peripherals - actually has a FIP right now of 1.30.
Small sample size caveats obviously apply, but he's a cool guy to see make it back. It's damn rare to see someone overcome Blass disease, let alone that AND a TOS issue. And to come back throwing 97 in his late 30s? Just pretty remarkable. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
I think Chris Young gave us a lot of false confidence with that surgery, but he was never a 200 IP starter anyway (and relied a lot on the angle/release point, rather than his sheer "stuff").
The list of starters who haven't come close to even reaching Young's success from that surgery has expanded exponentially since 2016.
Yeah - that's the weird thing about it.
The success stories like Kenny Rogers aren't recent in time. Jaime Garcia bounced back okay but it's really been a decade or so since a truly successful return.
I think you can probably call Mike Foltynewicz a success - his stuff fully recovered and he was a damn good pitcher in '18 and over the second half of '19. He sucks right now, but that's unlikely to have anything to do with the TOS.
But it's not like TJ surgery - guys aren't getting better at recovering from it. The results are as bad now as they've ever been. Probably not a great thing for the Pirates and Chris Archer, seeing as how they gave up a couple of potential All-Stars in Meadows and Glasnow to get him (and another pretty good prospect as well). [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
The Blue Jays, who had 10 free agents, won a two-team race for Carter's services. The Kansas City Royals also were seriously interested in signing the slugging outfielder, who has long lived in the Kansas City area.
"The Royals did everything in their power to see that Joe played in Kansas City," Jim Turner, Carter's agent, said. "They even offered an extra year guaranteed."
One of baseball's most iconic moments might never have would happened.
Originally Posted by Mecca:
How about this one...December 1991 - C Brent Mayne and P Luis Aquino to the Houston Astros for CF Kenny Lofton and IF Dave Rohde.
Royals turned that down cause of Brian McRae. Sad, Lofton had a HOF trajectory for about 6 years.
Originally Posted by Mecca:
How about this one...December 1991 - C Brent Mayne and P Luis Aquino to the Houston Astros for CF Kenny Lofton and IF Dave Rohde.
Royals turned that down cause of Brian McRae. Sad, Lofton had a HOF trajectory for about 6 years.
Wait what? I never heard that.
Here’s one: March 2003 Royals trade Beltran for Michael Young + Hank Blaylock. (Rangers offered) [Reply]
Funny you mentioned: that Cone interview I saw, he mentioned Joe wanted to go play in KC. (Obv he lives at Hallbrook, I played golf there last summer and he is on the member roster for their Club championship even now)
Cone claimed Joe wanted to come with but backed out last minute, so we gave Gagne the contract. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
How about this one...December 1991 - C Brent Mayne and P Luis Aquino to the Houston Astros for CF Kenny Lofton and IF Dave Rohde.
Royals turned that down cause of Brian McRae. Sad, Lofton had a HOF trajectory for about 6 years.
Kenny Lofton is the prototype CF for Royals Stadium. Speed and defense would have been perfect. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Funny you mentioned: that Cone interview I saw, he mentioned Joe wanted to go play in KC. (Obv he lives at Hallbrook, I played golf there last summer and he is on the member roster for their Club championship even now)
Cone claimed Joe wanted to come with but backed out last minute, so we gave Gagne the contract.
To be honest we did a pretty decent rebuild/reload job in 1993 and 1994. Royals had a solid lineup and damn good rotation. Picked up Joyner in 1992. 1993 added Gagne and Chico Lind. Got Gary Gagetti off the scrap heap in June. Loved that team in 1994. Damn strike destroyed the a 10 year old's dream. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Wait what? I never heard that.
Here’s one: March 2003 Royals trade Beltran for Michael Young + Hank Blaylock. (Rangers offered)
They also had offers of Kevin Youkilis and Kelly Shoppach from Boston the Yankees offered Cano and Dioner Navarro, Royals turned both down...and got the abortion they did. [Reply]
That 1994 group was going to be a great race to the finish. The Indians young group of stars had found their groove, and the White Sox were a playoff team. Then we had the hottest team in the league with solid defense, speed and a really good pitching staff led by Cone/Appier. [Reply]
