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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Baker's Dozen of Draft Donuts
'Hamas' Jenkins 09:04 AM 03-29-2014
Excellent OP. One thing I might add is to draft a lot of RBs or LBs in the 7th round. Those are the two positions with the highest hit rates late in the draft. You can draft a two down thumper/ST'er in that round and get good value
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'Hamas' Jenkins 09:06 AM 03-29-2014
Sacc is just a draft troll. Ignore him.
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OldSchool 09:39 AM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Rule 13: Draft physical, confident players.
All the athleticism or size in the world matters little if that player's demeanor is wrong. You have to draft physical, confident football players. Physical players show up on tape. If a corner won't stick his nose into a pile and try to take down a running back, don't draft him. I could go on, just make sure the player wants it.

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Dayze 09:47 AM 03-29-2014
I pretty much agree with the entire list.
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OldSchool 09:49 AM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by Dayze:
I pretty much agree with the entire list.
As far as depth of analysis goes, it's probably on par with John Madden's game day commentary.
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Bewbies 10:14 AM 03-29-2014
In Sacc's world the franchise OT is somewhere north of the holy grail.
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Saccopoo 01:09 PM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by Bewbies:
In Sacc's world the franchise OT is somewhere north of the holy grail.
Offensive Tackles picked in the Top 15 the last 20 years:

Doubles, Triples and Home Runs:
1995: Tony Boselli (5xPro Bowl, 3xAll Pro, Hall of Fame Nominee)
1996: Jonathan Ogden (Hall of Fame, Super Bowl Champ, 11xPro Bowl, 5xAll Pro); Willie Anderson (4xPro Bowl, 3xAll Pro, 13 year NFL career)
1997: Walter Jones (Hall of Fame, Super Bowl, 9xPro Bowl, 7xAll Pro), Orlando Pace (Super Bowl Champ, 7xPro Bowl, 5xAll Pro)
1998: Tra Thomas (3xPro Bowl, 1xAll Pro, 2 NFC Championship Games, All-Eagles 75 year Team)
1999: John Tait (Super Bowl, 2xPro Bowl, 11 year career)
2000: Chris Samuels (6xPro Bowl, 1xAll Pro, 141 starts out of 141 games played)
2001: Leonard Davis (Super Bowl, 3xPro Bowl, 1xAll Pro)
2003: Jordan Gross (Super Bowl, 3xPro Bowl, 1xAll Pro, 167 starts out of 167 games)
2006: D'Brickashaw Ferguson (3X Pro Bowl, 2xAFC Champion, 128 starts out of 128 games, current starting LT for Jets)
2007: Joe Thomas (7xPro Bowl, 4xAll Pro, current starting LT for Browns)
2008: Jake Long (4x Pro Bowl, 1xAll Pro, starting LT for Rams); Ryan Clady (3x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro, starting LT for Broncos)
2010: Russell Okung (Super Bowl Champ, 2x ProBowl, current LT Seahawks); Trent Williams (2x Pro Bowl, 55 starts out of 56 games, current LT Redskins)
2011: Tyron Smith (1x Pro Bowl, 1x 2nd team All Pro, current LT Cowboys)
2012: Matt Khalil (1x Pro Bowl, current LT Vikings)

Hits:
1994: Wayne Gandy (15 year NFL career, 205 starts out of 219 games)
2001: Kenyatta Walker (Super Bowl Champ, 6 year career, 73 starts out of 75 games)
2002: Bryant McKinnie (Super Bowl Champ, 1xPro Bowl, 13 year career)
2008: Branden Albert (1x Pro Bowl, current starting LT Dolphins)
2009: Andre Smith (50 starts out of 59 games, current OT Bengals); Eugene Monroe (73 starts out of 76 games, current LT Ravens)
2010: Anthony Davis (Super Bowl, current RT 49ers)

Misses:
1994: Bernard Williams (4 year career)
2002: Levi Jones (7 year career, 97 games started out of 103)
2002: Mike Williams (7 year career, 56 starts out of 59 games)
2004: Robert Gallery (8 year career, 103 starts out of 104 games)
2005: Jammal Brown (7 year career, 84 starts out of 85 games)
2007: Levi Brown (79 starts out of 81 games, currently on Steelers roster)
2009: Jason Smith (4 year career, 26 starts out of 45 games)

Inconclusive based on rookie season:
2013: Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson, DJ Fluker

And those are all of the OT's drafted in the first 15 picks over the last 20 years.
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kccrow 01:45 PM 03-29-2014
So on that list, 5 won a SuperBowl. I see one for sure that didn't do it with the team that draft him in McKinnie. Another, Walker, was moved to RT after his rookie year.

Expanding that, it looks as though another 6 made it to the Super Bowl? 11/20 to the Super Bowl is pretty good. 4/20 to Win the SB with the team that drafted them is not so good. 3/20 as a LT looks even worse.

So, if the ultimate goal is winning a SuperBowl, do you go with 50% chance the player will get you there, or a 20% chance the player will help you win one? Hmm. There is, of course, the other side of it that shows that you don't need a top tier tackle to win a SB 80% of the time. Tough choice. Opinion Sac?
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Saccopoo 02:31 PM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by kccrow:
So on that list, 5 won a SuperBowl. I see one for sure that didn't do it with the team that draft him in McKinnie. Another, Walker, was moved to RT after his rookie year.

Expanding that, it looks as though another 6 made it to the Super Bowl? 11/20 to the Super Bowl is pretty good. 4/20 to Win the SB with the team that drafted them is not so good. 3/20 as a LT looks even worse.

So, if the ultimate goal is winning a SuperBowl, do you go with 50% chance the player will get you there, or a 20% chance the player will help you win one? Hmm. There is, of course, the other side of it that shows that you don't need a top tier tackle to win a SB 80% of the time. Tough choice. Opinion Sac?
My opinion is that it's a position that doesn't really bust (Jason Smith and Bernard Williams are the two real notable "busts" while the others did play and contribute), that enables you to move a guy to potentially four/five different positions to maximize their potential and help the team.

It's not a bad position to pick from in the top 15 if you want a guy who's going to contribute at a high level - all things considered.
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Bewbies 01:46 PM 03-29-2014
Of the 5 that won the SB, give me one who's team wouldn't have done it without them...
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Saccopoo 02:34 PM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by Bewbies:
Of the 5 that won the SB, give me one who's team wouldn't have done it without them...
Rams and Ravens with Pace and Ogden.

And I think that Okung was a significant factor in the Seahawks win/season.
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Bewbies 03:42 PM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by Saccopoo:
Rams and Ravens with Pace and Ogden.

And I think that Okung was a significant factor in the Seahawks win/season.
I think if you're looking at Okung or Ogden you're watching the wrong side of the ball.
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Saccopoo 03:57 PM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by Bewbies:
I think if you're looking at Okung or Ogden you're watching the wrong side of the ball.
Ball control and field position has a lot to do with that (defensive dominance) and both Okung and Ogden were instrumental in achieving success in those areas on the offensive side of the ball.
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Bewbies 09:54 PM 03-29-2014
Originally Posted by Saccopoo:
Ball control and field position has a lot to do with that (defensive dominance) and both Okung and Ogden were instrumental in achieving success in those areas on the offensive side of the ball.
What a strange world you live in.
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htismaqe 05:23 PM 03-29-2014
:-)

90% of the pictures Sac posted actually SUPPORT the OP's hypotheses.

What a maroon.
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